Effing Gyno

[Dirty_Gerdy]

[quote] Brook wrote:
I read Mr. Bill Robert’s account on it.

He used 2.5mg over a week or so and tapered down from that.

He fell ill with a nasty bout of the flu due to the lowered Estrogen and thus a compromised immune system i guess. It lasted the whole duration of the program and it was definitely linked to the lowered estrogen he said.

But it did work. I dont know the state of the ‘titties’ beforehand however.

I originally thought that it was supposed to just work for the flabby gyno cases rather than the mammory - however i am not sure, i think it will work on the swollen mammory glands too. When i use a good combo of serms, AI’s or any other drug, i find that my gyno can really shrink to tiny sizes…

As i have written before, my gyno was reduced to one of its smallest states following a few weeks of binge-ing on benzodiazepines… namely Nitrazepam. Diazepam, Alprazolam, Midazolam, Temazepam, Lorazepam nor Clomazepam had this same effect
Not that i am suggesting one do what i did, and i wasnt trying to achieve that result with those drugs… it was simply noticed whilst i was going about my ‘business’.

It is just interesting that a drug that is seeming unrelated can have such a profound effect.
Benzo’s do work on the GABA pathway, and i suspect that they may have an effect on prolactin - as Dopamine agonists do… hmm… Nitrazepam DOES

As for the letro - i would try it… i dont think one could incur much long term damage from removing all estrogen for a couple of weeks.
Just make sure to stop training or just whole body/cardio 1 - 2 x per week at a low intensity.
Good calories, no junk and not restricted too…
Make sure work isnt at a particularly stressful point - keep stress to a minimum.

I would personally do something like the above to try to stabalize my stress and immune system for the letro regime.

JMO.

JJ[/quote]

but what about letro with cabergoline. So the prolactin issue is taken control of too. From the research I’ve done as of late I think that prolactin can cause gyno without estrogen. So even if estro was eliminated something needs to kill the prolactin thus the caber could be added.

now I think the only problem is this is how all the other hormones play off of each other for homeostasis. So if somebody completely shut down most of their hormones, even if they are known “female” hormones, that homeostasis would be all screwy. Usually when homeostasis goes whack then sides occur, so then we are back at square 1…lol

DG

[Brook1]

can you link me to where it says that prolactin can cause gynocomastia in men without the presence of estrogens?

When we introduce ANY hormone into this system, we are messing with homeostasis. i think you may be analyzing in the leftfield slightly.
I think that caber and letro would be good for someone who is ultra sensitive to tren gyno, but for the majority it is over kill with arimidex doing the job just nicely.

Those who get lactation/gyno from Nandrolones - well, IMVHO i think that maybe those individuals should steer clear of 19nortest substances all together!!

For this bit[quote]“…So if somebody completely shut down most of their hormones…”[/quote] i would say that it doesnt really need to be too detailed - letro is known to cause a ‘back-draft’ kind of reaction when a dose is withdrawn, so a moderate length taper is used to prevent this.
I dont know about Cabergoline…

Oh yeah - YGPM

JJ

[Dirty_Gerdy]

[quote] Brook wrote:
can you link me to where it says that prolactin can cause gynocomastia in men without the presence of estrogens?

When we introduce ANY hormone into this system, we are messing with homeostasis. i think you may be analyzing in the leftfield slightly.
I think that caber and letro would be good for someone who is ultra sensitive to tren gyno, but for the majority it is over kill with arimidex doing the job just nicely.

Those who get lactation/gyno from Nandrolones - well, IMVHO i think that maybe those individuals should steer clear of 19nortest substances all together!!

For this bit"…So if somebody completely shut down most of their hormones…" i would say that it doesnt really need to be too detailed - letro is known to cause a ‘back-draft’ kind of reaction when a dose is withdrawn, so a moderate length taper is used to prevent this.
I dont know about Cabergoline…

Oh yeah - YGPM

JJ[/quote]

The link I had found wasn’t a published resource, but some doods detailed explanation or copy/past job. It was on some other site, I’ll see if I can find it.

What about the people who use a 19nor alone and get gyno from it? Was it the slight amount of estrogen that is aromatized along with the prolactin that causes gyno in them? I am out in left field cause I don’t know much about it. Sometimes I look back and put the big pieces of the puzzle together and then go in and see how they fit or that certain pieces don’t fit lol…know what I mean? lol plus my lack of experience really hinders my thought process sometimes lol

oh and whats ygpm? I know I’m not living up to being a young hipster but i don’t know half of the internet shorthand lol

DG

[Brook1]

YGPM - You Got Private Message.

Yeah - that link will do fine, i’d like to have a read of that.

My thoughts were just as you stated - those who get gyno from tren alone (or deca but deca does aromatise a little too so…) is due to their own estrogen levels - endogenously. While those levels dont cause a problem as is - when the progestin is introduced there becomes enough of a hormonal environment to grow breast tissue/lactate.
Lactation is almost exclusively seen with the inclusion of 19-Nor steroids and not simply aromatising steroids alone. So i think it is safe to assume that prolactin is raised much higher/connected to progesterone/progestins rather than estrogens.

What i mean by leftfield - is that i can see your confusion in your posts… it seems like you are overwhelmed with information and are struggling to put it all together.

Why dont you write down the full process and interaction of the 4 hormones we are discussing, as they relate to individually raising each one independantally.
When you get to a bit where you dont know what happens or why, say so - then we can all try to fill in the gaps in your knowledge to complete the picture.

FYI - this becomes a very complex subject that no-one here seems to have the absolute answers for, but i think that a good working knowledge exists here collectively.

JJ

[Dirty_Gerdy]

grrrr…its taking forever for my posts to go through and if I send a pm it doesnt show under sent messages and people aren’t getting them.

something is messed up with my profile.

oh well…

yea man it sounds good, I’ll see if I can find that link again. It was from one of the other “roid” forums found online.

One thing I have learned is that if you take the proper ancillaries then there seems to be little to no problems.

DG

[Brook1]

well i remember a fairly recent poster (who hasnt been around for a while… go figure)
who started a deca or tren and test cycle and was lactating.

I advised him of all sorts via PM and on the boards, yet he insisted that all he needed was b6 tablets from Vitamin World, and to reduce the dose a little! Lactating!

He did eventually tell me he got some caber, but AFAIK (as far as i know) he wouldnt stop the tren!

hasnt posted for a while…

so the point is, many people know the right ancillaries to use but choose not to for fear of losing some of their gains or spending more money.

(As far as i am concerned - when i begin to lactate like a child bearing female of our species - it is time to re-assess my goals)

Those are the AAS users who wont do many cycles and who wont be around the boards - or the gym probably - in the not too distant future.

JJ

[Dirty_Gerdy]

[quote] Brook wrote:
well i remember a fairly recent poster (who hasnt been around for a while… go figure)
who started a deca or tren and test cycle and was lactating.

I advised him of all sorts via PM and on the boards, yet he insisted that all he needed was b6 tablets from Vitamin World, and to reduce the dose a little! Lactating!

He did eventually tell me he got some caber, but AFAIK (as far as i know) he wouldnt stop the tren!

hasnt posted for a while…

so the point is, many people know the right ancillaries to use but choose not to for fear of losing some of their gains or spending more money.

(As far as i am concerned - when i begin to lactate like a child bearing female of our species - it is time to re-assess my goals)

Those are the AAS users who wont do many cycles and who wont be around the boards - or the gym probably - in the not too distant future.

JJ[/quote]

wierd thing was that I actually lactated in my teens. lol Only if I squeezed them and tried to mess with people. I actually won a few bets.

I didnt’ think anything of it at the time, but now thinking about it I wonder If I had/have some screwy hormone levels. lol Bloodwork will be happening soon so I’m excited for that. I’ve always seem to have some magic f*cked up hybrid of a body anyways. lol

Just keep kryptonite away from me and I’m good. lol jk

I don’t think I could put my faith in combatting gyno in b-6. A vitamin…to me that seems like using 6-oxo for an AI…imo from research.

DG

[juice20jd]

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
2thepain wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
you have stopped the tren, good. do not bother with nolvadex at this point.

you have letro, use that. it will control and limit both P and E gyno.

P = prolactin or progesterone?

thats what i was thinking. Since learning from the prog. prol. estro thread I’m curious as well because the two will do two completely different things.

DG

I am guessing he meant prolactin but wanted to make sure.[/quote]

Been away for a while…I’ll offer a late laymans explanation. I might be retardedly wrong, but from all the reading on the subject my understanding is…

Gyno requires more than just excess estrogen to form…usually it needs the prescence of Estro, prog and some other mediators (IGF, Prolactin). Letro has been shown to lower progesterone receptors…so with letrozole use you cover both bases of estrogen and progesterone, as the metabolites in tren bind well to the prog receptor, and with the prescence of elevated E, can aid in development of gyno by amplifying the estrogenic affect.

The prolactin can be dealt with by using caber or bromo.

Letro with caber/bromo and you cover the bases completely giving you the best anti gyno protocol IMO.

If anyone runs a letro protocol for gyno reversal/control, they must remember that they will likley experience an estrogen rebound when it’s done…hence the need for a slow taper off, or the use of Nolvadex when the protocol ends.