T Nation

Effing Gyno

Hey Guys,

I posted this in my log but either people aren’t reading it or nobody that has read it cares to respond. I could use some help from experienced users

I have started having gyno issues again but this time it is not itchy nips/puffy chest i get from test (estrogen) but a pain in my left nipple which is just sore like someone gave me a purple nurple.

A little puffiness but mostly just pain. it is painful in the gland (I already have lumps there from a previously existing case of gyno and now it is sore so I assume it is growing).

First i bumped the adex a bit (0.2mg/d to 0.25mg/d) which didn’t help, then added 200mg/d B6 which hasn’t helped, and then I switched the adex to letro (1.25mg/d)…so far no relief from the symptoms.

I stopped the tren friday to see if it subsides. also took some nolva just to see what reaction I would have. I am always curious to play around with things on cycle to see what happens which may or may not be a good idea but I find it to be the best way to learn.

If anyone has some advice I am all ears! I’d really rather get this under control and keep running the tren cause the results have been great so far.

If the advice is to remove my glands I am way ahead of you…I think I am going to finally get it done this winter because I am sick of this.

We’ll see…this may just mean that 2 weeks of tren at a time is my limit or I need to run it with bromo/caber in the future.

Thanks.

FG

I would have suggested bromo or caber when the pain first started. It still might not be a bad idea to use some to clear up your problem even though if you are using ace then it will probably subside before the product arrives. In future cycles containing Nor-19s it may be wist for you to run caber for the duration.

Are you normally susceptable to estrogen related gyno? From what you wrote it appears it may be from the Tren. The B6 is mild in keeping prolactin in check. I wouldn’t rely on it too much.

I’d definitely pick up some Cabergoline(tabs not liquid). Liquid research grade is pretty much useless as it degrades very quickly.

[quote]Dopa wrote:
Are you normally susceptable to estrogen related gyno? From what you wrote it appears it may be from the Tren. The B6 is mild in keeping prolactin in check. I wouldn’t rely on it too much.

I’d definitely pick up some Cabergoline(tabs not liquid). Liquid research grade is pretty much useless as it degrades very quickly.[/quote]

How quick is “very quickly” Dopa?
That’s unnerving to know if you have or had already purchased a bottle of it.

I know there are some guys currently running the liquid caber and are on cycle with tren at the moment too.
Let’s get some more feedback and discussion on this if we could. Saps, what are your thoughts? You are currently doing ok with sides yes? Sorry I can’t remember but I think Saps ran the caber out of the gate?

Sorry to hear it’s buggin out at the moment FG. Hang in there bro, hopefully things start to get better. If not I would seriously consider ditching the tren, and go to what you said, 2 week pulsing with it to avoid the gyno sides.

That is one powerful steroid, and a bit tricky to control.

ToneBone
Good luck.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Dopa wrote:
Are you normally susceptable to estrogen related gyno? From what you wrote it appears it may be from the Tren. The B6 is mild in keeping prolactin in check. I wouldn’t rely on it too much.

I’d definitely pick up some Cabergoline(tabs not liquid). Liquid research grade is pretty much useless as it degrades very quickly.

How quick is “very quickly” Dopa?
That’s unnerving to know if you have or had already purchased a bottle of it.

I know there are some guys currently running the liquid caber and are on cycle with tren at the moment too.
Let’s get some more feedback and discussion on this if we could. Saps, what are your thoughts? You are currently doing ok with sides yes? Sorry I can’t remember but I think Saps ran the caber out of the gate?

Sorry to hear it’s buggin out at the moment FG. Hang in there bro, hopefully things start to get better. If not I would seriously consider ditching the tren, and go to what you said, 2 week pulsing with it to avoid the gyno sides.

That is one powerful steroid, and a bit tricky to control.

ToneBone
Good luck.[/quote]

I have purchased both, and have found the tablets worked much better in terms of sexual response, and overall general side effects.

“Some underground labs are offering liquid Dostinex, which is totally ineffective because Cabergoline (the ingredient in Dostinex & Cabaser) is extremely sensitive to moisture or alcohol and thus may get chemically inactive if put in liquid.”

If you run a google search with “Cabergoline and liquid” you will find a lot of similar information.

Has anyone noticed the onset of progesterone related gyno feels different than the onset of oestrogen related gyno?

With oestrogen gyno I get the typical itching, sensitivity, gland enlargement, etc. But with progesterone I got no itching, no tenderness, no sensitivity, only the gland behind nipple increased in side.

I think it might of just been flared up (not actually increasing in PERMANENT size it seemed) like areola got larger and mass got larger because I wasn’t on a huge dose - 300mg e/w of deca. Or it might of been the fact I was on a decent dose of letro 1mg ED.

What ever it was it went away with caber.

-RB

you have stopped the tren, good. do not bother with nolvadex at this point.

you have letro, use that. it will control and limit both P and E gyno.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
you have stopped the tren, good. do not bother with nolvadex at this point.

you have letro, use that. it will control and limit both P and E gyno. [/quote]

P = prolactin or progesterone?

[quote]2thepain wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
you have stopped the tren, good. do not bother with nolvadex at this point.

you have letro, use that. it will control and limit both P and E gyno.

P = prolactin or progesterone?[/quote]

thats what i was thinking. Since learning from the prog. prol. estro thread I’m curious as well because the two will do two completely different things.

DG

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
2thepain wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
you have stopped the tren, good. do not bother with nolvadex at this point.

you have letro, use that. it will control and limit both P and E gyno.

P = prolactin or progesterone?

thats what i was thinking. Since learning from the prog. prol. estro thread I’m curious as well because the two will do two completely different things.

DG[/quote]

I am guessing he meant prolactin but wanted to make sure.

I thought letro had anti prog. properties, not anti-prolactin… but tren is prolactin…

ahh fuck it. I dont know whats going on.

Gonna hit t’Google methinky.

FG just for clarity, did you have some pre-existing gyno? And this is your first go around with nor19?

Are you leaking at all out of that nipple?

yes i had pre-existing gyno. i have fully formed glans about the size of a dime already. in the past on cycle i got itchy and puffy in the chest. this time it is just pain in one side (behind the nipple, in the gland on the left side…nothing on the right but the left and right is now looking a little puffy).

i have pulled the tren and will just run a high dose of AI for a bit to try to kill it.

Hindsight is 20-20 of course but you might wanna get rid of that little problem completely before you re-cycle next time. You’re kinda begging for long term problems if you don’t

i have had this issue since I was a about 13 so it is already a long term problem. I think i am just going to go ahead and get the surgery. gonna wait until the winter though.

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
i have had this issue since I was a about 13 so it is already a long term problem. I think i am just going to go ahead and get the surgery. gonna wait until the winter though. [/quote]

Wow that sucks FG. Too bad it’s so fucking expensive and not insureable. Hey all the best man, you still had a good cycle for the most part it sounds like.

not to bring up the dead thread for a few days, but I was thinking.

Aside from really throwing your body’s hormones out of whack, what do you think of a caber/letro combo to try and reverse gyno.

I mean if all the hormones responsible for causing gyno are taken out, then would the glands shrink?

Kind of a simple question that I’m sure has been thought of and asked before.

But letro would kill off estro/prog
caber the prolactin.

I still don’t understand the three enough to know wtf is going on with them in the male body, but i’m just thinking of something. lol

DG

I have read before that letro has been used to shrink existing gyno. I am unsure what dose and duration were used in these studies. I would be concerned how ones body would feel after being on letro for an extended amount of time. The damage to lipid profiles and the joint pain might become a major issue to deal with.

I read Mr. Bill Robert’s account on it.

He used 2.5mg over a week or so and tapered down from that.

He fell ill with a nasty bout of the flu due to the lowered Estrogen and thus a compromised immune system i guess. It lasted the whole duration of the program and it was definitely linked to the lowered estrogen he said.

But it did work. I dont know the state of the ‘titties’ beforehand however.

I originally thought that it was supposed to just work for the flabby gyno cases rather than the mammory - however i am not sure, i think it will work on the swollen mammory glands too. When i use a good combo of serms, AI’s or any other drug, i find that my gyno can really shrink to tiny sizes…

As i have written before, my gyno was reduced to one of its smallest states following a few weeks of binge-ing on benzodiazepines… namely Nitrazepam. Diazepam, Alprazolam, Midazolam, Temazepam, Lorazepam nor Clomazepam had this same effect
Not that i am suggesting one do what i did, and i wasnt trying to achieve that result with those drugs… it was simply noticed whilst i was going about my ‘business’.

It is just interesting that a drug that is seeming unrelated can have such a profound effect.
Benzo’s do work on the GABA pathway, and i suspect that they may have an effect on prolactin - as Dopamine agonists do… hmm… Nitrazepam DOES

As for the letro - i would try it… i dont think one could incur much long term damage from removing all estrogen for a couple of weeks.
Just make sure to stop training or just whole body/cardio 1 - 2 x per week at a low intensity.
Good calories, no junk and not restricted too…
Make sure work isnt at a particularly stressful point - keep stress to a minimum.

I would personally do something like the above to try to stabalize my stress and immune system for the letro regime.

JMO.

JJ

[quote]2thepain wrote:
I have read before that letro has been used to shrink existing gyno. I am unsure what dose and duration were used in these studies. I would be concerned how ones body would feel after being on letro for an extended amount of time. The damage to lipid profiles and the joint pain might become a major issue to deal with.[/quote]

Pain I’ve read the same. BUT people confuse their nipples being puffy as a result of just being on test (not permanent - will disappear when off cycle) with actually having the gland permanently grow. Not saying this debunks it AT ALL, just what I’ve seen behind some claims.

-RB