T Nation

Education is Not a Right

The downward progression in thought all begins with the collectivist idea that education is a right to be granted by the State.

The effect of the State’s compulsory schooling laws is not only to repress the growth of specialized, partly individualized, private schools for the needs of various types of children. It also prevents the education of the child by the people who, in many respects, are best qualified ? his parents. The effect is also to force into schools children who have little or no aptitude for instruction at all. It so happens that among the variety of human ability there is a large number of subnormal children, children who are not receptive to instruction, whose reasoning capacity is not too great. To force these children to be exposed to schooling, as the State does almost everywhere, is a criminal offense to their natures. Without the ability to learn systematic subjects, they must either sit and suffer while others learn, or the bright and average students must be held back greatly in their development while these children are pressured to learn. In any case, the instruction has almost no effect on these children, many of whose hours of life are simply wasted because of the State’s decree. If these hours were spent in simple, direct experience which they were better able to absorb, there is no question that they would be healthier children and adults as a result. But to dragoon them into a school for a formative decade of their lives, to force them to attend classes in which they have no interest or ability, is to warp their entire personalities.

-Murray N. Rothbard
exerpt from “Education: Free and Compulsory”

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The downward progression in thought all begins with the collectivist idea that education is a right to be granted by the State.

The effect of the State’s compulsory schooling laws is not only to repress the growth of specialized, partly individualized, private schools for the needs of various types of children. It also prevents the education of the child by the people who, in many respects, are best qualified ? his parents. The effect is also to force into schools children who have little or no aptitude for instruction at all. It so happens that among the variety of human ability there is a large number of subnormal children, children who are not receptive to instruction, whose reasoning capacity is not too great. To force these children to be exposed to schooling, as the State does almost everywhere, is a criminal offense to their natures. Without the ability to learn systematic subjects, they must either sit and suffer while others learn, or the bright and average students must be held back greatly in their development while these children are pressured to learn. In any case, the instruction has almost no effect on these children, many of whose hours of life are simply wasted because of the State’s decree. If these hours were spent in simple, direct experience which they were better able to absorb, there is no question that they would be healthier children and adults as a result. But to dragoon them into a school for a formative decade of their lives, to force them to attend classes in which they have no interest or ability, is to warp their entire personalities.

-Murray N. Rothbard
exerpt from “Education: Free and Compulsory”

http://mises.org/story/2226 [/quote]

yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.
[/quote]

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

One more quote that stands out from that essay:

In a fundamental sense, as a matter of fact, everyone is “self-educated.” A person’s environment, physical or social, does not “determine” the ideas and knowledge with which he will emerge as an adult. It is a fundamental fact of human nature that a person’s ideas are formed for himself; others may influence them, but none can determine absolutely the ideas and values which the individual will adopt or maintain through life.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.[/quote]

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.

Literacy was well-nigh universal here in the US before compulsory schooling. With every step in the direction of compulsory eduction, culminating in our illustrious Dept of Education (which does what again?), we’ve seen a steady decline in reasoning ability, knowledge, and genuine literacy.

My grandfather was almost entirely self-educated. Few people could hold a candle to his command of facts, his ability to penetrate bullshit, his wit, his capacity for independent thought, his knowledge of history and western culture, etc. Thank god our public school system never got hold of him.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.[/quote]

Some of the best educated people I know were home schooled; and many are devoutly Christian.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.

Some of the best educated people I know were home schooled; and many are devoutly Christian. [/quote]

unpossible

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.

Some of the best educated people I know were home schooled; and many are devoutly Christian.

unpossible[/quote]

Agreed. There are no Christian doctors, nurses or lawyers.

The moment your IQ goes above 12, you somehow simply know that you are the epitome of being in the Universe.

Then again, maybe people who think like that aren’t as bright as they think they are.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.

Some of the best educated people I know were home schooled; and many are devoutly Christian.

unpossible

Agreed. There are no Christian doctors, nurses or lawyers.

The moment your IQ goes above 12, you somehow simply know that you are the epitome of being in the Universe.

Then again, maybe people who think like that aren’t as bright as they think they are.[/quote]

What’s with the high rotation of your avatars? It’s like I don’t even know you anymore.

The purpose of “free and compulsory education” is not to educate, but for all children, including yours, to be rescued from their bourgeois shackles and freed to join the vanguard for permanent revolution.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
katzenjammer wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
yet they make fun of a lot of fundamental christians for home schooling.

Freedom means the freedom to fuck up your kids’ minds too.

Hey now, you also need to understand that some christians are actually well educated,

but I wouldn’t only home teach my children, they need to be socialized as well.

I have B.S neuroscience and MS in Biochem have done genomic research for NATO and am currently considered a subject matter expert in my field.

I am also a born again believer, I currently attend a baptist church.

Now you are doing what I am told I should never do, discriminating. I will admit there are alot of christians that are not well educated. There are a lot every creed in this world that are not well educated.

Some of the best educated people I know were home schooled; and many are devoutly Christian.

unpossible

Agreed. There are no Christian doctors, nurses or lawyers.

The moment your IQ goes above 12, you somehow simply know that you are the epitome of being in the Universe.

Then again, maybe people who think like that aren’t as bright as they think they are.

What’s with the high rotation of your avatars? It’s like I don’t even know you anymore.

[/quote]

Some jackass stole my main one and started posting as “Professor xXx”. I changed it so people would know which was me but then he started using my picture as his avatar. The Mods were slow to get rid of him.

It is because of things like that will probably not be posting here much longer.

[quote]Some jackass stole my main one and started posting as “Professor xXx”. I changed it so people would know which was me but then he started using my picture as his avatar. The Mods were slow to get rid of him.

It is because of things like that will probably not be posting here much longer. [/quote]

What? Don’t be a drama queen.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Some jackass stole my main one and started posting as “Professor xXx”. I changed it so people would know which was me but then he started using my picture as his avatar. The Mods were slow to get rid of him.

It is because of things like that will probably not be posting here much longer.

What? Don’t be a drama queen. [/quote]

That’s not the primary reason. That was just part of the list.

You are right though and I didn’t mean to come across like that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Some jackass stole my main one and started posting as “Professor xXx”. I changed it so people would know which was me but then he started using my picture as his avatar. The Mods were slow to get rid of him.

It is because of things like that will probably not be posting here much longer. [/quote]

Or you could do something novel and start a new trend by not using an avatar at all.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Agreed. There are no Christian doctors, nurses or lawyers.
[/quote]

Wrong, there most certainly are Christian doctors, nurses and lawyers; however there are not too many home-schooled doctors, nurses, or lawyers. At some point they have to put down the bible and pick up something a little more challenging. Depending on how well adjusted mommy and daddy are maybe they managed to slip in logic so little Timmy can learn to think for himself too.

I am all for religious home schooling. I also want it to be in the form of especially indoctrinating fundamentalism so that my children will not have to compete with them for the high paying technical jobs, etc.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Literacy was well-nigh universal here in the US before compulsory schooling. With every step in the direction of compulsory eduction, culminating in our illustrious Dept of Education (which does what again?), we’ve seen a steady decline in reasoning ability, knowledge, and genuine literacy.
[/quote]

You’re arguing that the standard of education has dropped since 1840 (the earliest year I found near-universal literacy rates for)?

That doesn’t sound right.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The downward progression in thought all begins with the collectivist idea that education is a right to be granted by the State.

The effect of the State’s compulsory schooling laws is not only to repress the growth of specialized, partly individualized, private schools for the needs of various types of children. It also prevents the education of the child by the people who, in many respects, are best qualified ? his parents. The effect is also to force into schools children who have little or no aptitude for instruction at all. It so happens that among the variety of human ability there is a large number of subnormal children, children who are not receptive to instruction, whose reasoning capacity is not too great. To force these children to be exposed to schooling, as the State does almost everywhere, is a criminal offense to their natures. Without the ability to learn systematic subjects, they must either sit and suffer while others learn, or the bright and average students must be held back greatly in their development while these children are pressured to learn. In any case, the instruction has almost no effect on these children, many of whose hours of life are simply wasted because of the State’s decree. If these hours were spent in simple, direct experience which they were better able to absorb, there is no question that they would be healthier children and adults as a result. But to dragoon them into a school for a formative decade of their lives, to force them to attend classes in which they have no interest or ability, is to warp their entire personalities.

-Murray N. Rothbard
exerpt from “Education: Free and Compulsory”

http://mises.org/story/2226 [/quote]

I was going to pick apart this essay piece by piece, but… frankly, find that far too time consuming. I pretty much disagree with the entire excerpt. I highly doubt the ‘subnormal’ children the essay refers to would be ‘healthier children and adults as well’ without the benefit of education.

An educated populace is a public good. It makes economic sense to subsidize it, at least, if not completely nationalize it (as has been done almost universally).

I think if the problem is abuse and indoctrination in the school system then the goal is to get rid of the abuse and indoctrination, not the entire system.

Abolishing it in favor of a fully private system has a great chance to raise the number of illiterate and totally uneducated to unprecedented heights.

Before public schooling people were even dumber, and if they were less indoctrinated they sure as sh%t didn’t seem to show it.

I never learned a damn thing in 15 years of school. I just don’t belong in a classroom. I’m convinced that I would be far better off today if I had gotten a job at 14 instead of having attended high school.