T Nation

EDT shoulders

I am new to EDT and looking in to trying it. I was reading the Escalating Density Training article and noticed in the routine that Charles Staley lays out, there is no direct shoulder work? Could someone reply who has tried this program and share their results specifically shoulders. My shoulders are lagging and I?m just wondering if I do this program that they won’t get a sufficient amount of work done to them?

He said he didn’t include any direct shoulder work because of all of the pushing and pulling exercises. Shoulders is also a small muscle group and a lot of times people overtrain them because you use shoulders in all pushing and pulling movements. Now I threw a few sets of shoulders in at the end of the workout and it worked out alright for me. You could also replace a chest movement with military press or dumbell press.

As the above poster said there is a good amount of push/pull exercises that will indirectly hit your delts. Direct work with the shoulders in this type of program would more than likely overtrain them.
As for EDT, you’ll love it. I added an inch on my arms in 5 weeks, and am currently using his fat loss protocol, which has already left me in a significant amount of pain, but no doubt will do the job.

Pauli, I want to try that EDT fat loss workout that Coach Staley posted on his MyoDynamics site a few months back. I have 2 problems though- I work out at home so I would have to find a lot of substitute exercises, and the second problem ties in with the first- it seems my substitutes (stiff leg deads instead of ham curls, etc.) would put me in an overtrained state (stiff leg deads instead of leg curls on monday, followed by back extensions on wed, followed by deadlifts on friday would absolutely fry my back). Do you follow the program exactly as designed, and do you feel any overtraining effects at all? Thanks

thanks guys

Bump for anyone with more info on EDT for Fat Loss workout… Thanks…

T-mag published a much more extensive EDT Fat Loss program by Staley. Look it up in previous issues.

Thanks, TEK, must have missed that one. I’ll take a look.

If your shoulders are lagging, you should consider following EDT: ARM specialization mesocycle found here at T-mag.

Although it is hyped as an arm specialization program, it’s really an article about how to specialize any lagging bodypart within an EDT structure.

You will also enjoy the reference to another t-mag article telling you how to put all other parts on maintenance while you finish that mesocycle.

Remember, Charles Staley has always reminded people that EDT is more of a concept than a rigid entity.

Good luck!

EDT is for hypertrophy. It is not for strength, endurance or anything else. It’s designed to promote hypertrophy. (and it does a very good job at that.)


That said (and maybe I’m missing something here…), I can’t for the life of me see why anyone would want to use an EDT protocol with an exercise like hyperextensions (assuming that you’re doing them for the lower back). Who wants to hypertrophy his lower back? Especially without a strength increase?


Personally, I wouldn’t even use it with deadlifts due to the technicality of the lift. But I could maybe see it there - you know, adding some thickness to your entire back. But hyperextensions? Abs? Anything in your midsection? Can’t see it.

Hello Char-dawg,

As for hyperextension and abs, I don’t think those muscle are going to hypertrophy a lot anyway. It’s just that it’s a convenient way of placing them and be sure those muscle are going to get some stimulation. So, IMO, I wouldn’t prepare myself to change pants size with 1 or 2 PR ZOne 10-15 minutes EDT per week.

As a side note(you have a right to disagree with this one), I don’t have any problem with strength increase using EDT, in fact, it’s a great program! When I seek strenght and mass increase, I begin a 4 week cycle with 80% of my max and do sets of 3/2/1. I aim for 30 reps, if I get it, I add 5% or 5kgs, whichever is greater. Here’s an example, let’s say max bench is 150kgs.
training 1: 120kgs3/3/3/3/2/2/2/2/1/1 = 22reps in 15 minutes
training 2: 120kgs
3/3/3/3/3/3/3/2/2/1 = 26reps in 15 minutes
training 3: 120kgs30reps, time to add 7,5kgs
training 4: I would cut the volume by half(unloading week) I would aim for 127,5Kgs
10-12reps at most.

this is only a rough example,

Tell me what you think,
-LPdSB

What’s up man, As for overtraining I’ve only been using his fat loss protocol for around 3 weeks now and no I’ve noticed any overtraining effects at all. As for substitute exercises I can see how that may be a problem possibly to overtraining but I really can’t help with this as the place I work out at has about everything I need to use. Does anyone else has some advice on substitutions?

Sorry it took so long for me to reply to this. I’ve been busy…!


If you’re doing EDT with extremely heavy weights, then yeah, I can see how you’d get a strength increase. I imagine that you probably wouldn’t hypertrophy as much as you would otherwise, but then it’s always a trade-off. Nonetheless, doing the program as Staley originally intended it would involve using much lighter weights, and my experience has been that while it’s great for hypertrophy, you do, after a while, lose some strength. (Not that you can’t get it back quickly.)


I’m not sure why you think that your abs/lower back won’t hypertrophy on EDT. They’re just muscles, like any other bodypart…


You wrote: It’s just that it’s a convenient way of placing them and be sure those muscle are going to get some stimulation." I have to confess that I have no idea what you meant by this sentence. Care to explain it a little more fully?