T Nation

EDT - Ouch!

I remember a thread in the forum a while ago, where Charles Staley posted his recommended rep range for EDT. Does anyone remember what this was?

By the way, if you haven’t tried EDT yet, the DOMS is insane! Only two days in, but I can’t lift my arms.

-DreadRedHead (aka colostomyBag Boy)

I believe he recommended taking a weight you can do for 10-12 reps and then doing it for half as many reps (6 to start and go lower as needed). I think most of us that are doing EDT are doing a total of 40-50 reps per time period. The program is great. I’m on my fifth week and still making progress. But I will be switching to Renegade Training in the future.

Yeah, I played with EDT and had some good gains, I was on MAG-10 at the time as well so I picked up a good 8 lbs. in two weeks. Once I’m done with King’s Super Strength and Limping series, I plan to embark upon a major mass cycle that includes the following items: Finasol, MAG-10, all the free shit I won from Biotest (I mean shit in the positive, wholesome sense), a truckload of food provided by (with the exchange of monetary compensation) Trader Joe’s, along with a dosing and dieting program provided by my most anal-retentive coordinator, Johnny Roman. I was going to try EDT II but those bastards Zev and JN had to go and write up the brillaint “Bring the Forum” and I am compelled to attempt this protocol while massin’. Following this hedonistic romp my intentions areto go full on Renegade emphasizing a hellacious amount of Kettlebell work. I’ve pretty much had it with traditional BB’ing and need a very real physical nad psychological/emotional change in my athletic pursuits. Lata.

MBE: “Pull his string…and he bites your f’n face off. Since 1987.”


Rep range should be 50-65. Make sure and ice if you can and take your vitamin C it helps.

Guys, I’ve got to take issue with the “recommended” rep range. I think that this is going to vary widely depending on a person’s fiber-type make-up. Personally, being a long, skinny, endurance type, I found that I was getting anywhere from 75-115 reps using the prescribed 10-12 RM weight for sets of 5 or 6 reps (20-minute EDT sets).

Of course, one can always up the weight to make the total number of reps lower. But I got great gains from using the regular weight. I think that it’s mainly an individual matter of fast- or slow-twitch that’s going to make the difference.

115 reps for each exercise in a 20 min period??? Not possible

My rep ranges were a lot like char-dawg’s. It seemed I could do sets of six on some exercises (machine chest press and leg extentions for example) indefinitely, but in other exercises (chins especially) I was doing sets of two very quickly.

Well, despite what your omnipotent knowledge of weight training tells you…

Ah, forget it.

Look, here’s what my training log says for my final EDT sessions: Chest Dips: 100 reps; Upright rows: 119; Pulldowns: 89; Wrist curls: 104; Tricep pushdowns: 98; Pulley rows: 91. And so on and so forth. The LEAST amount of reps that I got was on Leg Ex/Leg Curls, which were 79 and 77, respectively.

Just because your body doesn’t react a certain way doesn’t mean that no one’s does. So chill with the “not possible” attitude.

I’m going to be starting EDT november 17th. I’m going to follow the rep recommendations except i’m changing my rep scheme a bit. Instead of single reps i’m going to be using 1 1/2 reps. I have really long arms, especially the humerus and doing 1 1/2’s helps a lot, especially during exercises such as bench press and any pressing movements. Only thing I really changed is I created a 20 minute shoulder day on Sunday (which will be my first workout of the week).

I’m thinking that your high endurance rating means that you’re too ‘strong’ for the weights you’re using. But this is totally a guess (I’m still trying to achieve the ‘universal theory of weight-lifting’). What I mean is that you have a really high potential (good myosin density) and that you’re not tapping a high percentage of the muscle fibers with each contraction. Both you and Nate Dogg didn’t gain with HST and both of your have good “density” potential. I’m thinking that the weights you move aren’t heavy enough to cause significant microtrauma.

Hmmmn, I’ve got to run now. Shoot. Do you think a good strength program would allow you increase the weights you sling to “damaging” levels?

Yeah bro, you are getting a ton of reps during your sessions. You must be using some light weights or doing some high reps each set. Like El_Machinea said, maybe you should use heavier weights. But if you’re making good progress now, then don’t change until you have to!

Well, it’s an interesting point. Of course, I could just choose a weight that would only allow me to get 50-60 reps - but that weight wouldn’t be a 10-12 RM. Maybe I’ll try a higher weight with my next cycle.

I don’t know about the potential thing. I currently am on 5x5, which is working nicely, but I’m going to go off it in another week or so to get back to EDT (15-minute tri-sets, this time). I generally try to mix “heavy” programs (5x5, 1-6, etc.) with volume programs (EDT, GVT, etc.) throughout the year, but seem to make better gains with the volume stuff. I tried Meltdown and EDT earlier this year and was really amazed with the results I got. Of course, both of these programs use lighter weights with short rest periods.

I think that the combination of being naturally very ecto with good endurance, plus having a long and consistent lifting history (25 years now) may be a reason that I can apparently do more reps than most on a program like EDT. I tried “Hundreds” (not the T-Mag workout) out when I was in my late 20’s and could easily do more than guys who were younger and much stronger than I in the lower rep ranges. On the other hand, my 1RM lifts are nothing to write home about. 315 on parallel squat, 365 deadlift, about a 250 bench at a weight of about 180. So I’ll obviously never be a powerlifter!

Some other (non-body) factors to consider: Mental focus: I am extremely focused, and my gym is pretty hard-core, so no one generally interrupts me. Exercise proximity: I can move stuff around in the gym more or less as I like, so I can get off one exercise and basically just turn around and get going on another. All this means basically zero time wasted between sets.

Finally, having said all this about how I do well on low-intensity, high-rep programs, perhaps all the HST people out there will now understand why I’ve been so mystified about why that program didn’t work for me. I would have thought that it would be perfect, which is why I tried it. That it didn’t work out that way has been a source of real perplexity for me, and I’m very interested in finding out why (especially since a lot of others are making great gains with it). Hence my detailed thread asking for specific feedback.

it seems char that you have very slow twitch muscle fibers. thus when you do only 6 out of your 12rm you fatigue only few fibers… slow also recovery the fastest inbetween sets which would provide for your ability to do so damn many reps. finally ectos are generally atleast somewhat slow twitch… Thus maybe you should pick a higher RM like 15 or 20… then again i could be wrong

Dman: Yeah, I think so too.

One other “other” factor that I forgot to list last time: choice of exercises. I made sure to only pick “easy” (in the sense of non-technical) lifts for my EDT workout. Whereas Nate Dogg (for example) was doing squats and stuff. I think that the more technically difficult the exercise, the fewer reps you’re going to be able to perform. Thus one could do more leg presses than squats (even assuming equal power requirements) because you don’t have to worry about balance with a leg press. Same thing for machine versus regular bench presses, hyper-extensions versus SL deadlifts, a barbell hack squat versus a front squat, and so on.

Char-dawg for example let say you performed 115 reps for both exercises. If we assume you were able to maintain 6 reps per set you would have performed 38 sets (19 sets for each exercise) for the 20 minute time period. That leaves approximately 25 seconds to perform each set of 6 with 5 seconds to change exercises. This does not account for normal fatigue and exhaustion which you should be experiencing if you chose the correct starting weight. Maybe impossible was a strong word, improbable yes. I suggest you really test your 12 RM.

It’s a good point that you bring up. But in fact, I generally can stay with 7-8 rep sets for my 12RM weight (at least for the first ten or twelve minutes or so). And just in case you think that I’m throwing the weights around, I use a deliberate tempo on all exercises. Admittedly, this tempo deteriorates significantly toward the last of the set(s), but I’m not slinging weights or anything. Finally, thanks to my experience with HST, I know exactly what my 10- and 15-rep maxes are on a lot of exercises. I will admit that I interpolated (=guessed) to figure some of the EDT 12RMs, but not for all. While these RMs may be slightly off, it isn’t by much.

i’d be interested to see what your results were if you used a 15rm or even 20rm for 4weeks or so… it would be rather similar in weight to your 12rm…