T Nation

EDT and HIIT?

Is mixing the two (EDT and HIIT after) types of workouts too taxing on the CNS? Am I doing too much?

My schedule is 2X EDT (two 15 min. sessions+ accessory work, like external rotations, abs, etc…) then 1 ‘‘normal’’ workout, where I go easy, but still HIIT after. I drink my PWO drink before HIIT. I don’t think I’ll be burning muscle that way, but I worry about overtraining.

Listen to your body.

I was doing EDT three times per week with an upper/lower split along with EDT-HIIT hybrid by running as many flights of stairs as possible in 15 minutes, three times per week.

It was way too much. I got sick twice in three weeks and had random periods where I would feel “funny” sensations in my chest(!).

After some trial and error, I’ve found a simple 2x6 TBT routine, three times per week and EDT-HIIT doing as many stairs as possible in 10 minutes (this in addition to four hours of Jujitsu-Karate per week) is about as much as my body can handle at the moment.

It doesn’t look like much on paper, but I’m progressing in all my lifts as well as my HIIT so I can’t argue with the results. Performance is paramount.

Hey. That sounds pretty sweet.

The ElbowStrike Principles©:

  1. Performance is Paramount
  2. ???
  3. Profit!

– ElbowStrike

Great advice here. I think I’m going to do an article titled “It Doesn’t Look Like Much On Paper.” It just has such a great ring, and there’s so much truth to that phrase…

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Listen to your body.

I was doing EDT three times per week with an upper/lower split along with EDT-HIIT hybrid by running as many flights of stairs as possible in 15 minutes, three times per week.

It was way too much. I got sick twice in three weeks and had random periods where I would feel “funny” sensations in my chest(!).

After some trial and error, I’ve found a simple 2x6 TBT routine, three times per week and EDT-HIIT doing as many stairs as possible in 10 minutes (this in addition to four hours of Jujitsu-Karate per week) is about as much as my body can handle at the moment.

It doesn’t look like much on paper, but I’m progressing in all my lifts as well as my HIIT so I can’t argue with the results. Performance is paramount.

Hey. That sounds pretty sweet.

The ElbowStrike Principles©:

  1. Performance is Paramount
  2. ???
  3. Profit!

– ElbowStrike[/quote]

Thanks for the reply.

If I listen to my body, I’d say the first 2 workouts were perfect, and lots of fun too, but I was doing 20 minutes EDT. Now, I changed it, I really think 20 min. is too much.

When I arrived to my third workout, I did some lunges then I was finished, I had absolutely no energy left and I started to get cranky, even aggressive. This is not me. So I figured I was overtrainng, maybe. But maybe it was just one of those days, I don’t know.

BTW, I jump rope for HIIT. Hits the legs and calves pretty bad.

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Listen to your body.

After some trial and error, I’ve found a simple 2x6 TBT routine, three times per week and EDT-HIIT doing as many stairs as possible in 10 minutes (this in addition to four hours of Jujitsu-Karate per week) is about as much as my body can handle at the moment.

– ElbowStrike[/quote]

Can you please explain what you mean by that? TBT 3 times a week + EDT-HIIT?

[quote]gogotheviking wrote:
Can you please explain what you mean by that? TBT 3 times a week + EDT-HIIT?[/quote]

I do a total-body workout with 2 sets of 6 reps per exercise. I alternate between two different workouts.

Workout “A”

  • One-Leg Squat
  • Bench & Barbell Row
  • Dragon Flags & Hypers
  • Lat DB Flyes & Bent Lat DB Flyes
  • Hammer Curls & Skull Crushers
  • Wrist Curls, Reverse Wrist Curls & External Shoulder Rotations

Workout “B”

  • One-Leg SL Deadlift
  • Incline Bench & Weighted Pullup
  • Cable Twists & Hanging Side Crunches
  • Lat DB Flyes & Bent Lat DB Flyes
  • Hammer Curls & Skull Crushers
  • Wrist Curls, Reverse Wrist Curls & External Shoulder Rotations

Then, for my “cardio” I do HIIT in the style of EDT, or “EDT-HIIT”.

I run stairs as my HIIT, but to keep things simple and not spend the entire time waiting for my watch to beep and tell me whether or not to stop and start, I just set my watch for 20 minutes and start running stairs.

I spend the next 20 minutes sprinting flights of stairs, counting them as I go along.

The goal is to do more flights than in the previous workout.

I’ve started training at my dojo four times per week now and had to cut back on this EDT/HIIT program in favour of a simple 10 x 15s sprint: 15s rest protocol on a stationary bike, 3 times per week.

The EDT-HIIT stairs were fun while they lasted, though.

(Okay, here’s the short version:

EDT-HIIT Simplified

HIIT exercise done in the style of EDT.

Have set sprinting bouts such as a 400m track or “a flight of stairs”.

Try to do as many of those bouts as possible under a time limit.

For example, “as many flights of stairs as possible in 20 minutes”.)

I hope this helped to clarify.

– ElbowStrike

[quote]gogotheviking wrote:
Thanks for the reply.[/quote]

Never a problem. :slight_smile:

[quote]
If I listen to my body, I’d say the first 2 workouts were perfect, and lots of fun too…When I arrived to my third workout, I did some lunges then I was finished, I had absolutely no energy left and I started to get cranky, even aggressive. This is not me. So I figured I was overtraining, maybe. But maybe it was just one of those days, I don’t know.[/quote]

If I were in your position, I would take this as a sign that either I’m not eating well enough or my body can’t handle two EDT workouts in a row just yet.

I’d alternate EDT workouts with a low-volume, “light” workout doing the movements from the EDT workout, only doing 2-3x6, but with the next-highest-increment of weight above your EDT workouts.

Example:

EDT Arms

BB Curl & Nosebreakers - 20min PR w. 80
Cabl Curl & Cabl Ext’s - 20min PR w. 90

“light” day between EDT workouts

BB Curl & NosBrkrs - 2x6 w. 85
Cab Curl & Cab Ext’s - 2x6 w. 95

Either that or reduce the EDT down to 10-15 minute PR zones.

When I tried EDT as an aside to martial arts, I could only handle one 10-minute PR per bodypart, twice per week.

Hope this helps,

ElbowStrike

[quote]gogotheviking wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

If I listen to my body, I’d say the first 2 workouts were perfect, and lots of fun too, but I was doing 20 minutes EDT. Now, I changed it, I really think 20 min. is too much.

When I arrived to my third workout, I did some lunges then I was finished, I had absolutely no energy left and I started to get cranky, even aggressive. This is not me. So I figured I was overtrainng, maybe. But maybe it was just one of those days, I don’t know.

BTW, I jump rope for HIIT. Hits the legs and calves pretty bad. [/quote]

gaw fucking damnit stop saying overtraining. you burnt out or overreached but did not overtraing. That takes months of overreaching. damn this frustrates me. go down to dumb mistake number five.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1442461

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
gaw fucking damnit stop saying overtraining. you burnt out or overreached but did not overtraing. That takes months of overreaching. damn this frustrates me. go down to dumb mistake number five.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1442461[/quote]

Hey now, I don’t believe that venting personal pet peeves on your Brothers in Iron is a good strategy for becoming very popular among citizens of T-Nation.

“Overtraining” is the only word the average Joe has to describe the phenomenon where they are training with a load in excess of their ability to recuperate.

Before someone decided they needed a subject for their master’s thesis and invented a whole new set of definitions for their own personal construct/opinions on “overtraining”, we had two types of overtraining:

Acute overtraining - What this poster was referring to.

Chronic overtraining - What you are referring to.

If he is attempting a training schedule that is in excess of his ability to recover then yes, he is “overtraining” in the simplest definition of the word.

– ElbowStrike

[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
Great advice here.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback!

Only if I get a nickel on the dollar for coining the phrase! :wink:

– ElbowStrike

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
gaw fucking damnit stop saying overtraining. you burnt out or overreached but did not overtraing. That takes months of overreaching. damn this frustrates me. go down to dumb mistake number five.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1442461

Hey now, I don’t believe that venting personal pet peeves on your Brothers in Iron is a good strategy for becoming very popular among citizens of T-Nation.

“Overtraining” is the only word the average Joe has to describe the phenomenon where they are training with a load in excess of their ability to recuperate.

Before someone decided they needed a subject for their master’s thesis and invented a whole new set of definitions for their own personal construct/opinions on “overtraining”, we had two types of overtraining:

Acute overtraining - What this poster was referring to.

Chronic overtraining - What you are referring to.

If he is attempting a training schedule that is in excess of his ability to recover then yes, he is “overtraining” in the simplest definition of the word.

– ElbowStrike[/quote]

I prefer the term burnout…

Yeah you know, after reading the article, I came to the conclusion I was not overtraining, obviously. Now I feel better by doing less in the gym.

But overtraining, like elbowstrike said, is the term used by everyone when they feel they did too much. People even say they overtrain after an intense workout. This is a common mistake, but not knowing the exact scientific definion of overtraining is common.

So from now on, I will use the term overreach, or burnout, or whatever, but if someone tells me he overtrainained, I won’t start to bitch, I’ll just explain him.

By the way, is there an article about EDT for fat loss, not EDT cardio, but with weights? Because I’ve been thinking, if you use EDT with lighter weights but reach for a higher PR, like between 80-90, maybe 100, but in the same time frame, lime 15 min., with explosive reps, as fast as you can without sacrificing form, I think you can get a nice HIIT like effect. What do you think?

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
I prefer the term burnout…[/quote]

Even then, if you said “burnout” to a psychologist or psychiatrist, they’d have a ton of material to throw at you to prove that you’re using the “wrong” word.

They’d tell you that “burnout” refers to a mental state related to depression characterized by a process of slow, chronic, and worsening dissatisfaction with one’s career or social roles and responsibilities.

Then, from your point of view, they’d be a complete dick for jumping down your throat.

But anyway, you say to-mah-to, I say to-may-to… blah, blah, blah.

Peace.

– ElbowStrike

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
I prefer the term burnout…

Even then, if you said “burnout” to a psychologist or psychiatrist, they’d have a ton of material to throw at you to prove that you’re using the “wrong” word.

They’d tell you that “burnout” refers to a mental state related to depression characterized by a process of slow, chronic, and worsening dissatisfaction with one’s career or social roles and responsibilities.

Then, from your point of view, they’d be a complete dick for jumping down your throat.

But anyway, you say to-mah-to, I say to-may-to… blah, blah, blah.

Peace.

– ElbowStrike[/quote]

then i guess we should just pick a new word for it…liiiiike…flipitydoo!

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:

I was doing EDT three times per week with an upper/lower split along with EDT-HIIT hybrid by running as many flights of stairs as possible in 15 minutes, three times per week.

It was way too much. I got sick twice in three weeks and had random periods where I would feel “funny” sensations in my chest(!).
– ElbowStrike[/quote]

I haven’t posted in some time because I haven’t had anything useful to say. This post peaked my interest though because I’m just comming off of doing EDT for the last 2 months and I also have these “funny” sensations in my chest at random.

It feels like extreme anxiety or something, or like butterflys in the chest. My training the last 2 months consisted of EDT 3 or 4 times per week along with bike sprints 3 days per week for 20 minutes.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a sign of overtraining?

I’ve done EDT for periods of 1-2 months other times and haven’t had any problems, so I doubt that it’s directly related to EDT. Any ideas?

[quote]robs wrote:
I’ve done EDT for periods of 1-2 months other times and haven’t had any problems, so I doubt that it’s directly related to EDT. Any ideas?[/quote]

Probably more to do with the bike sprints.

Mine went away when I reduced the total volume of HIIT from 20 minutes down to 10 per session.

– ElbowStrike

[quote]gogotheviking wrote:

By the way, is there an article about EDT for fat loss, not EDT cardio, but with weights? Because I’ve been thinking, if you use EDT with lighter weights but reach for a higher PR, like between 80-90, maybe 100, but in the same time frame, lime 15 min., with explosive reps, as fast as you can without sacrificing form, I think you can get a nice HIIT like effect. What do you think?[/quote]

On the EDT video I have, Charles Staley has Tim Larkin (who is a big guy) doing kettlebell snatches for 15 minutes. I think he got around 110 reps with each arm. Needless to say, the sweat was pouring off him.

There is an EDT for fat loss article by Charles. Not sure if it is on this site though. Search his articles.

Here’s Staley’s article.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459309