T Nation

EDT and Fat Loss

Hi people!

I am in the middle of my cutting cycle. Have done “10x3 for fat-loss” by CW and this is my last week of CT’s “Destroying Fat” routine. Well, so far so good, but i need new routine for the next week. I am thinking of EDT. Yes, i know, that there is a version for fat loss which incorporates a set of heavy core-movement in the beginning and then a few EDT-style sets. But… here is what i have come up with:

Monday
Upper Body - Chest/Biceps
A1. Heavy Dips (4-5 sets of 3-4 reps)

PR Zone One
B1 DB Press
B2 EZ Curls

PR Zone Two
C1 Incline BB Press
C2 Incline Hammer Curls

Tuesday
Lower-Body - Quad Dominant

I am still thinking if i should make it an EDT-style day or not… However, for maximum Fat loss - i should.

A1 - Heavy Front Squat (4-5 sets of 3-4 reps)

PR Zone One
B1 Step-Up (Left)
B2 Step-Up (Right)

PR Zone Two
C1 Lunges (Left)
C2 Lunges (Right)

Thursday
Upper Body - Back/Triceps

A1 - Heavy Chins (4-5 sets of 3-4 reps)

PR Zone One
B1 T-Rows
B2 Lying Tricep Extensions

PR Zone Two
C1 Wide Grip Pull-Downs
C2 Tricep Push Downs

Friday
Lower-Body - Hams Dominant

A1 - Heavy Deadlift Variation (RDL, probably) - (4-5 sets of 3-4 reps)

PR Zone One
B1 Back Extensions
B2 Standing Calf Rises

PR Zone Two
C1 Leg Curls
C2 Hmm… Maybe Abs work?

So, here is the split. I don’t know if it is going to be more or less productive than what Charles originally offered in his article. What i tried to do here, is to make training more frequent and less grueling, which would allow me to perform more total work per week. I want to add some energy work, preferably HIIT sessions, but don’t know on which days they would be the best addition. On Upper Body? Well, it then will hinder my performance on consequent lower-body days. On Lower-Body? Wouldn’t it be too much? Anyway, what you guys think?

In addition to the EDT fat loss article you refer to, Charles (along with Alwyn Cosgrove) wrote an article that was EDT for fat loss. Go to the Staley training site for the article. The link is below. The program is performed three times a week.

http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/articles/EDT-for-fat-loss.htm

It doesn’t look bad. Id really myself lend to more big compounds and bang for the buck when looking to drop body fat and less isolation move. But you know you better then anyone of course so this may be perfect.

Your plan looks good in that you are giving attention to a BIG compound move prior to the PR zones. Id really NAIL this move and make it priority. Rest as much as needed and concentrate on trying to keep the loads up on this move over the weeks your cutting.

On lower day I know your trying to split it to quad and glute ham day but really there is NO way to do a lunge or step up and not use all those muscle groups. Id really like to see you do one of those each day. Both are great and can really get the HR up

On the ham dominant day the back extensions or better yet a GHR coupled with ab move is a killer combo

lastly Id do ANYTHING you can on your feet. Like the upper press day I would skip the incline press and do a standing OH press. and a standing curl variation. MORE bang for the buck

Hope that helps
Phill

Oh I didnt touch on the HIIT. Man I would limit any and all cardio to walking at least at first. If your giving your all to the PR zones and using BIG demanding moves they are really going to tax the hell out of you and put you in a great metabolic Furnace as is.

Id see how your initial recovery and progress is. MORE is not always better. You can always add on a bit. Theres no need to go over board.

Have you ever done EDT before? I’m not sure if I’d even bother with HIIT sessions when doing EDT as an EDT workout can be pretty draining all on its own.

My own experience is that too many compound exercises with EDT can really beat up your joints of you do it for too long, but I think your split looks good.

Like Phill said, I like the emphasis on a heavy compound exercise before doing your EDT PR Zones.

And I also agree that I’m not sure about how your are splitting up your legs, but try it out and see how you like it. You can always tweak the workout or change up the exercises if you feel a particular PR Zone is too much or not quite as effective as you’d like.

Phill, Vader - thanks a lot for chiming in.

The split is sure not perfect and needs more editing. Step-up and lunges are in deed not the best quad-dominant exercises. Maybe i should ditch the last PR-Zone (Step-Up) for a more isolation move and pair it with some ab-work (i.e. v sit-ups, as a great HR raisers), so that i will be able to perform on the next leg day. On “Destroying Fat” i used one leg day a week, but it was a killer: Front Squat paired with leg curls and then RDL paired with alternating lunges.

Regarding big movements - yeah, nice idea. I think i should substitute incline press with a push press or MP.

Regarding cardio - yeah, after reading about EDT i realize, that cardio maybe not be even needed. I have never done EDT before, so it is hard to judge. Maybe, if i feel that i have the energy, i will add a few full-body lactate-inducing workouts, but not sure if they are gonna be needed at all. Will keep it in the sleeve, so that when progress stalls i have something to initiate the progress again.

Anyways, thanks a lot!

Oh, and one last thing:

Oh, and i have this idea of choosing weights for PR Zones. For the first one i would choose a weight which allows to do 30-40 reps in a given amount of time and in a second a slightly lower wieght, which would allow 60-70 reps per PR zone, so that the first one is more hypertrophy and the second one is more like metabolic/cardio. What do you think of it? This way i am hitting heavy, moderate and light (well, relatively) weights during the workout.

[quote]Zluke wrote:
Oh, and one last thing:

Oh, and i have this idea of choosing weights for PR Zones. For the first one i would choose a weight which allows to do 30-40 reps in a given amount of time and in a second a slightly lower wieght, which would allow 60-70 reps per PR zone, so that the first one is more hypertrophy and the second one is more like metabolic/cardio. What do you think of it? This way i am hitting heavy, moderate and light (well, relatively) weights during the workout. [/quote]

Go for it! Try it and let us know how it works out for you.

I personally have never experimented with different rep ranges with EDT. I’ve always just used my 10 RM and tried to get 5 reps each set. There was another thread in the T-Cell about EDT that talked about how you can tailor EDT to be whatever you want. If you want to focus on strength, use your 6 RM and do sets of 3. If you want to work on endurance, use your 20 RM and go for sets of 10-12. Use them in combinations. You can really tailor it to do whatever you like. That’s the beauty of EDT.

[quote]Zluke wrote:
Regarding cardio - yeah, after reading about EDT i realize, that cardio maybe not be even needed. I have never done EDT before, so it is hard to judge. Maybe, if i feel that i have the energy, i will add a few full-body lactate-inducing workouts, but not sure if they are gonna be needed at all. Will keep it in the sleeve, so that when progress stalls i have something to initiate the progress again.[/quote]

Yes, I think it’s better to hold off on those things until you see how you respond to the workout first. You can always add them later if you have the time/energy to do them. I’ve found that EDT is enough for me without adding other exercise. It kicks my ass. I’ll maybe do a little light cardio on my off days, but that’s about it.

Looks pretty good, and you cant go wrong with EDT, but I might change the exercises a bit.

Curls aren’t going to do much for fat loss for you, so they should occur only at the end of the workout likely.

Also, it depends on how many days a week your going to train, and if your going to do any other workouts, but if for example you were going to train 3-4 days, I think full body workouts are much more beneficial.

EX:

Workout A:

A1: Front squat
A2: Push press

B1: Stepup L/R (alternating)
B2: BW row

C: Curls


Workout B:

A1: Deadlift
A2: Floor press

B1: Lunge L/R
B2: chinup

c: Tricep ext.

I think that would work really well. Theres no reason why EDT with compounds should mess up your joints at all, as long as you dont rush through things and ignore your form. You can adjust the load, time, or density to make things work.

Im doing a fat loss phase now, and havent been using EDT for a while, but am thinking of going back in a bit. One of my current circuits looks like this.

A1:Front squat 5x8
A2:Floor press 5x8
A3:Deadlift 5x8
A4:BW row 5x8

I usually take about 30-60 seconds between sets. Then density on this thing is crazy. It takes like 30 minutes, but your basically working every muscle with a pretty high workload.

I was thinking of trying this EDT style after a while, starting with the same weights and doing sets of 4-5 and seeing if I can progress to getting 50 reps per exercise in the same amount of time.

Either way, just have fun.

Work the large muscles hard with short rest breaks, and you’ll be good.

The reason why i included curls and triceps movements, is because i was going to split the routine into four workouts and make them somewhat leveled out. So i have Chest/Bis, Quads/Abs, Back/Tris, Hams Abs. But maybe you are right about total body workouts. I’ve done CW’s TBT for a few months and it sure was a killer, only i was bulking on it and i didn’t apply EDT principles there.

And those whole body circuts - yeah, they certainly are killers. I’ve just completed Destroying Fat and used whole body circuits twice a week. 4 sets with no rest and another 4 sets with no rest is no joke :slight_smile:

dankid,

I’ve been thinking about your advice to use full body compounds. Well, it makes sense. The split i outlined in my first post looks somewhat balanced (well, to me) and would be great for hypertrophy, but i think that if i go full-body way, i will perform more work in each workout which would mean more calories burned, thus more fat loss. I am thinking about Ab-B workouts as you proposed and having them like this:

Work-out A:
A1 Vertical Pushing (Dips, OH Press)
A2 Quads (Hack Squat)

B1 Vertical Pullin (Chins, Pullups)
B2 Hams (RDL)

Work-out B:

A1 Horizontal Pullin (BB Rows, T-Rows)
A2 Quads (BB Sissy Squat)

B1 Horizontal Pushin (DB Bench)
B2 Hams (Back Extensions)

I will try to train using 1 on, 1 off scheme.

While tryin to lose fat, i went from ~3400 cals to 2100. I now upped them to 2400 and will go down from it.

[quote]Zluke wrote:

Work-out A:
A1 Vertical Pushing (Dips, OH Press)
A2 Quads (Hack Squat)

B1 Vertical Pullin (Chins, Pullups)
B2 Hams (RDL)

Work-out B:

A1 Horizontal Pullin (BB Rows, T-Rows)
A2 Quads (BB Sissy Squat)

B1 Horizontal Pushin (DB Bench)
B2 Hams (Back Extensions)

quote]

Looks good, but I would do it like this:

Workout A:

A1 vertical press
A2 Squat variation

B1 vertical pull
B2 RDL


Workout B

A1 Horizontal push
A2 Deadlift variation

B1 Horizontal pull
B2 Uni-lateral variation for legs

Thats how i’d probably do it, because it allows you to choose any exercises for the variations, and leads covers every movement pretty much. But what you wrote up isn’t much different.

Good luck.

Ok, i have officially started EDT for fat loss today. And what i did was:

PR1
A1 Dips
A2 Chins

PR2
A1 RDL
A2 Hanging Pikes.

I figured that i having two heavy lower body exercises in one day is overkill. However, after i completed both 15 minutes pr zones, i decided that i had some energy and did 10 minutes of HIIT.

I think this volume/intensity combination is right for me. Not too much, but still pretty much heavy!

Thanks for your input guys. I will be following this routine for 3 weeks minimum and will let ya know about the results.

Zluke,

I’ve been doing EDT for several months now during a fat loss phase. I do 3 15 minute PR Zones 3 days per week. Each day of the week, I do different exercises, but always include an upper body push and pull, a quad dominant, and a posterior chain dominant exercise. On off days, I do forearms, abs, calves, and shoulder re/prehab. Here are the exercises I’ve been doing:

EDT Workout #1
PR Zone 1: Back Squat, dumbbell curls (180#, 40#)
PR Zone 2: Romanian deadlift, triceps extension (180#, 40#)
PR Zone 3: BB shoulder press, BB upright row (95#, 95#)

EDT Workout #2
PR Zone 1: Deadlift, lateral raise (200#, 32.5#)
PR Zone 2: step up, bent lateral raise (60#, 27.5#)
PR Zone 3: BB bench press, BB bend row (150#, 150#)

EDT Workout #3
PR Zone 1: DB bench press, one arm DB row (65#, 65#)
PR Zone 2: 1 leg extension, stiff leg deadlift (60#, 180#)
PR Zone 3: chins, dips (10#, 10#)

Last week, I replaced the shoulder press and upright row with clean and press, and shrugs.

I really like the EDT format. I always feel like I get my “money’s worth” out of these sessions.

Good luck with yours!

Hey mathineer,

Your routine looks really brutal :slight_smile: How do you feel after your work outs?

I must say, that in about an hour or two after full-body work-outs i feel drowsy and usually have a 30-60 minutes nap. I reckon it is mostly because my CNS gets more drained.

But if i do body splits - then it is muscle soreness.

Anyways, i will see the results my routine can bring and will add more work if needed. But definately, this kind of program gives a lot of stress in a time period and i like it. I can feel that i’ve worked-out.

[quote]Zluke wrote:
Hey mathineer,

Your routine looks really brutal :slight_smile: How do you feel after your work outs?

I must say, that in about an hour or two after full-body work-outs i feel drowsy and usually have a 30-60 minutes nap. I reckon it is mostly because my CNS gets more drained.

[/quote]

Speaking for myself, I prefer more of a split routine when doing EDT. I get too run down if I do a full body EDT workout. I don’t think you’ll notice a significant difference in fat loss between either, so I’d say do what feels better to you.

I can’t find my old workout logs, but I used to do a split like this:

chest/bi
quads/hams
back/tri
shoulders/calves

or

chest/bi
quads/calves
back/tri
hams/calves

I’d usually do 2 15 min PR Zones and then one 10 min PR zone each workout. Sometimes in that 10 min zone I would work on a different bodypart depending on my goals. So like for chest/bis, it might look something like this.

15 PR Zone:
a Incline BB Press
b Incline DB Curls

15 PR Zone:

a Hammer Strength Bench Press
b EZ Bar Curls

10 PR Zone:

a Dec DB Fly
b Reverse DB Curls

of if I wanted to work my shoulders more, that last 10 min PR zone might look more like:

a DB laterals
b Revers DB Curls

I’ve tried push/pull type EDT workouts, where I would do pairings more like chins/dips and bb row/flat bench, but I burn out quicker. Also, my gym is too busy to tie up two pieces of equipment for 15 min at a time, so that’s another reason why I’ve tended to pair a compound exercise with an isolation. It’s much easier for me to grab a pair of dumbells or an ez bar and take it to where you are doing your other exercise.

[quote]Zluke wrote:
Hey mathineer,

Your routine looks really brutal :slight_smile: How do you feel after your work outs? [/quote]

It doesn’t really feel brutal. I usually work out in the evening after work, so I’m going to bed in 2-3 hours after I’m done. I usually have mild muscle soreness, but then feel fine the next day.

[quote]
Anyways, i will see the results my routine can bring and will add more work if needed. But definately, this kind of program gives a lot of stress in a time period and i like it. I can feel that i’ve worked-out.[/quote]

Yep. It definitely is a dense workout. I usually back off on total reps each time I increase weight, then gradually build up to 45 to 50 reps of each exercise in the PR Zone before increasing weight again. I have a workout log at Staley’s site if you’re interested.

http://www.teamstaley.com/showthread.php?t=11865

The original edt for fat loss article is at

http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/articles/EDT-for-fat-loss.htm

in case you haven’t seen it.

Vader,

I changed my mind and decided to do full-body instead of body-split, because, as dankid put it, “Curls won’t do anything for fat loss”. And i think he’s got a point. Yes, it feels more brutal, but i spend more energy during and after workout doing full-body, than if i would do body split. I already feel that this routine is hard and i going to follow it for at least 3 weeks. While progressing with sets and then reps on EDT-style sets, i am going to add one more interval on my each second HIIT session (So it will be 10 mins, 10 mins, 12 mins, 12 mins, etc).

mathineer,

Will take a look at your log, thanks!

Went through both splits. Well, definately it is a hard work :slight_smile:

I am thinking if i would be better-off by introducing some variety in my routine. Maybe, hitting 30-35 reps in the A split and 50-60 in the B split?