Ectomorph - Steroids, Defeat, or Real Answers?

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
HogLover wrote:
[/quote]

I like this. Good stuff.

“how many of us were good at weightlifting right away? how many had good mentors when we first started? how many of us made mistakes when we were kids or whenever we started? but we stuck with it and we made gains.”

I think that’s what he needs to hear.

[quote]HogLover wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
HogLover wrote:

I like this. Good stuff.

“how many of us were good at weightlifting right away? how many had good mentors when we first started? how many of us made mistakes when we were kids or whenever we started? but we stuck with it and we made gains.”

I think that’s what he needs to hear.
[/quote]

I agree with you to a certain point, but it sounds like he doesn’t want it bad enough.

JW

[quote]Sxio wrote:
I’m an ectomorph too but for some reason, if I bust my arse in the gym I get bigger.

Food’s not even THAT important for me (but don’t tell anyone), it’s going all out for those last 2 reps.

But hey, if you feel you need steroids go right ahead. [/quote]

Agreed.

I grew up a twig and for a long time training did little for me. I finally dropped the reps, upped the weight and focused. That gave results.

[quote]HogLover wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
HogLover wrote:

I like this. Good stuff.

“how many of us were good at weightlifting right away? how many had good mentors when we first started? how many of us made mistakes when we were kids or whenever we started? but we stuck with it and we made gains.”

I think that’s what he needs to hear.
[/quote]

I never had “mentors”. I made many mistakes. That is simply a part of learning. One thing I never did, however, was believe that I wouldn’t reach my goal. No one had to give me a personal pep rally to get me to believe in myself. That is sort of a requirement (some type of belief in yourself) when it comes to bodybuilding or sports and actually making progress. You can’t really teach that. Life should have done that.

I don’t think this guy has been lifting weights for 20 years, I think he has made a few half assed attempts at doing so, on and off over that time. And knows so little about what does work, that he thinks that he has tried everything - when in fact he has only tried everything he knows, which ain’t much. But won’t admit that.

I am not insulting you Mr Ecto I am trying to give you hope that maybe you have been doing a whole heap of crap all this time and that is why it ain’t working.

If you have in fact done everything properly then maybe there is something wrong with you that needs checking out. There are many little things that might put a drain on you and prevent growth especially if you aren’t doing everything correctly. Things that you can live with but will prevent growth. Maybe you are allergic to something and don’t even know it. that can put a bit of a drain on you and hamper efforts. Who knows.

Also if you give up weights, what are you going to do instead? get real fat?

I’d like to see you succeed because I would love to find out what eventually DOES work for you. It would be very interesting.

I only started growing after doin the calorie thing. will probly ghet flamed for this, but umm y shud i care?!

what worked for me is eating some junk food. if you consume all you can in a day (thats clean etc), den go and have some fuckin brute burger king meal or mcdonalds meal dat will give u almost an extra thousand cals in the one sitting. (dependin on wat you actually have). neways… its helpin me put on weight :slight_smile:

Ecto - are you getting stronger? With strength gains come size.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
HogLover wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
HogLover wrote:

I like this. Good stuff.

“how many of us were good at weightlifting right away? how many had good mentors when we first started? how many of us made mistakes when we were kids or whenever we started? but we stuck with it and we made gains.”

I think that’s what he needs to hear.

I never had “mentors”. I made many mistakes. That is simply a part of learning. One thing I never did, however, was believe that I wouldn’t reach my goal. No one had to give me a personal pep rally to get me to believe in myself. That is sort of a requirement (some type of belief in yourself) when it comes to bodybuilding or sports and actually making progress. You can’t really teach that. Life should have done that.[/quote]

And this is why we should ALL here at T-Nation aspire to be just like you.

I’m sorry that your life sucks so bad.

Let me go eat some food since you obviously don’t want to.

If 5K Cals. didn’t do it for you (which I doubt you did eat that much) then you shouldv’e (gasp!) eaten MORE!

The concept isn’t all that difficult bud.

The secret to getting huge is to accidentally slip and do an extra rep in the process…worked like a charm.

The original post in this thread just hits a nerve in every serious lifter and the attitude is the exact opposite of most T-Nation members. What makes any of you guys think, that this is not just grade A trolling?

Welcome to the harsh physical reality of life over 35. Gains come slower. Fat loss takes forever. If you want results you have to workout harder and more often. Stop comparing your old self to your younger self. Those days are gone forever. I didn’t start lifting until I was 50 and hell yes, it’s damn hard work and I love every minute. Life gets harder and moves faster. Stop whining and get busy.

Hi Guys,
Wow, sympathy to I am an idiot amazing.

Ok, My routines focused on Compound movements.

SQUATS, DEADLIFTS, BENCH PRESS, PULLUPS, DIPS, PULLDOWNS, ROWS, LUNGES, BARBELL STEP UPS

Iv’e tried rep ranges from 5x5 to 3x10 to 10x3 to 4x8, usually for minimums of 3 months per rep scheme.

My Diet:

Whole grains, vegetables, Protein shakes, brown rice, fruits, no sugars, no saturated fats, etc… CLEAN EATING.

Yes, I did eat over 5000 calories (i wanted to puke everyday)… 8 meals of roughly 600-700 calories per meal

for example:
Whole wheat bagel 270kcal
Blackberries 70k
Natural peanut butter 200kcal
glass of Milk 100kcal

thats 660 kcal right there and tht was an example of a snack

I knew you guys would critic me like i was eating wrong, lifting wrong, etc. but I have done things the right way.

My problem is, i believe i am endo in the gut area. Even though i am eating Low-GLycemic carbs, and eating clean, I have a predisposition to gain fat around the middle, THIS SUCKS!

When i up my eating, i get a belly. I lose weight now in my arms shoulders, butt, while the gut remains. I don’t know.

Any help would be appreciated.

I empathize.

My stats:

43 years old.
73.5 inches tall, barefoot.
240ish.
100% natural.

I’ve been training since I was 16… but maybe my training sucked?

Looking back, the learning years (16-18) gave me little gains, but rough hands and knowledge. 18-19, got much better. 20-22, pretty much didn’t train for a bunch of BS reasons. 22-26, got act together, trained strict, made gains but never benched more than 240 for two reps. Arms finally - finally reached 15 inches, how come I’m still all this skinny? I eat like a maniac and spend money on supplements, too! 26-29. back in the slump, hardly trained at all. 29-31, got act back together. Body weight goes (finally) above 200 lb. I can do 30 pullups. 32-34. Slump again. What the hell is wrong with me? Shit, I can bench 225 a couple of times and my arms haven’t grown at all! Plus I’m drinking a case of Blue Thunder a month! Barely trained that year. 34-36: joined a real gym, worked out regularaly - yeah, twice a day, six days a week, what, I’m Arnold? Not much in the way of gains, but I discovered the leg sled. Lots of pain in the arms and knees. Damnit! I’m training twice a day and I’m going backward. 36-37. Decided to start all over again. This time: train once a day, five days a week: M legs/shoulders, T back/chest, W arms, Th legs/shoulders, F back/chest. Benching 225 a whopping 6 times, shoulder pressing 135 ten times. yet my arms aren’t growing! 37: gave up on supplements completely; changed that ridiculous routine to M legs, T chest, W back, Th shoulders, F arms. 38-41. Married a cook. Eating a lot more and a lot more meat. My weight starts to rise… Yet making not so many gains in strength. One thing I noticed: I can barely do pullups any more! Waist goes from 36 to 38. This has to stop! 41. I get a hernia! A hernia! Though it’s from coughing (says the doctor). Operation is a success, doc says to not lift anything for a month then take it easy for a while. I set my goal: take it easy for a full year, go back to the gym, but work out with the bar only. So I did that… Still, being married to a great cook meant that I ate a lot. My waist went past 40!

Time to stop. When I hit 42 (the anniversary of my hernia operation), I decided to work out RIGHT, no matter what. So I changed my routine: M arms (imagine, prioritizing my worst body part, who would’ve thought it?), T legs, W Chest, Th back, F shoulders. Strict movements, discipline, don’t miss a thing.

I also didn’t overtrain. I became honest with myself: my body is terrible - but Hubert Metz has skinny wrists, maybe I can look that good one day (I’m 42 and I’m still dreaming). So emphasize just doing the exercises right, finally. I re-read all the books I’d accumlated over the years, re-read all the internet threads on everything, decided that supplements didn’t do a thing for me.

So, after a year, here’s part of my chest routine from last week:
Incline bench press
5 X bar X 10-15
5 X 135 X 10
flat bench press
2 X 135 X 10
1 X 225 X 12
1 X 275 X 4
1 X 315 X 1 WOW! AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I FINALLY DID 315!!!
Dips
3 X 10
Incline Flyes
3 X 30 X10
Cable Crossovers
1 X 50 X 15
1 X 60 X 12
1 X 70 X 10

And finally my arms are closing in on 17".

So, a) never give up, b) marry a good cook and eat a lot, c) train strict. Two months ago I shocked myself by doing 225 for ten solid reps, I couldn’t believe it. I was stoked, too, because I knew I’d make my goal of 315.

Now, looking back on my training, I have to honestly say that I trained for only a year. The lifetime before simply built, brok, re-built and re-built that “foundation” the rest of the folks in the gym keep telling us skinny guys need to build.

Don’t quit.

Sadly,working out is a religion to many on this board. They usually are lacking somewhere in their life so they workout to make up for the deficit.
So it’s not as earth shattering to give up on working out as you think. If you have a good life and are content take up another hobby and enjoy yourself. Perhaps you will gain some muscle!

People are not remembered for their muscles as much as to the quality of life they lived.

When you die people don’t miss your muscles,they miss you!!!

So take the time you waste working out and channel it into something like loving your children more, and stop thinking so much about self and instead give to others…

[quote]suprarob wrote:
Sadly,working out is a religion to many on this board. They usually are lacking somewhere in their life so they workout to make up for the deficit.
So it’s not as earth shattering to give up on working out as you think. If you have a good life and are content take up another hobby and enjoy yourself. Perhaps you will gain some muscle!

People are not remembered for their muscles as much as to the quality of life they lived.

When you die people don’t miss your muscles,they miss you!!!

So take the time you waste working out and channel it into something like loving your children more, and stop thinking so much about self and instead give to others…

[/quote]

You’re an idiot. Because you can’t give to others and workout? How much have you given to others lately that puts you above everyone else on this site who lifts weights? How did you manage to stereotype all people who lift weights regularly like this? Does it make you feel better because you lack the drive to lift regularly by degrading those who do have the drive? How much of a pussy must you be if there are people who give to others, accomplish more than you in their lives as well as workout regularly?

There are HRT clinics that will help you. Don’t listen to the internet trainers telling you that you are not trying hard enough all the other BS. Some of them have advanced degrees but still somehow beleive we were are all exactly the same biologically. I think it has something to do with the public school system and this myth about everyone being the same for self esteam purposes.

Anyway you probably have, and always have had issues with test levels and GH. A guy like you in his 30s can easily qualify for this treatment and it’s legal. I’d go that route first. Just google HRT therapy and research the shit out of it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
suprarob wrote:
Sadly,working out is a religion to many on this board. They usually are lacking somewhere in their life so they workout to make up for the deficit.
So it’s not as earth shattering to give up on working out as you think. If you have a good life and are content take up another hobby and enjoy yourself. Perhaps you will gain some muscle!

People are not remembered for their muscles as much as to the quality of life they lived.

When you die people don’t miss your muscles,they miss you!!!

So take the time you waste working out and channel it into something like loving your children more, and stop thinking so much about self and instead give to others…

You’re an idiot. Because you can’t give to others and workout? How much have you given to others lately that puts you above everyone else on this site who lifts weights? How did you manage to stereotype all people who lift weights regularly like this? Does it make you feel better because you lack the drive to lift regularly by degrading those who do have the drive? How much of a pussy must you be if there are people who give to others, accomplish more than you in their lives as well as workout regularly?[/quote]

Hit a senseitive spot?
Well I won’t call you a name, but I was talking about what was best for him. In your lack of self control strong guy you missed the point. He could do both or he could do one or the other. That is his life choice. Your life choice can be different. That is America, but when all is said and done lifting weights is a very insignificant part of ones whole sum…

[quote]suprarob wrote:
Hit a senseitive spot?
Well I won’t call you a name, but I was talking about what was best for him. In your lack of self control strong guy you missed the point. He could do both or he could do one or the other. That is his life choice. Your life choice can be different. That is America, but when all is said and done lifting weights is a very insignificant part of ones whole sum…

[/quote]

Your statement wasn’t simply about “life choices”. You made the blatant assumption that anyone who puts focus on their physical state of being as any type of priority in their life must be lacking in some other area. Not only was it one negative sweeping stereotype, but it implies that the multitudes of lazy couch potatoes that make up this country are all better people because they don’t focus on weight lifting. It was a stupid comment. The person who is truly impressive is the one who can continue bodybuilding while also helping others. Your post made an attempt to make it seem as if it one or the other.

[quote]AverageJay wrote:
There are HRT clinics that will help you. Don’t listen to the internet trainers telling you that you are not trying hard enough all the other BS. Some of them have advanced degrees but still somehow beleive we were are all exactly the same biologically. I think it has something to do with the public school system and this myth about everyone being the same for self esteam purposes.

Anyway you probably have, and always have had issues with test levels and GH. A guy like you in his 30s can easily qualify for this treatment and it’s legal. I’d go that route first. Just google HRT therapy and research the shit out of it.[/quote]

Most people in gyms are not trying hard enough. It is a jump to blame lack of progress on hormones when this is usually not the case in most cases. If he was truly consistent in how he ate and lifted, he would weigh more than he does in terms of lean body mass. Not only that, but he is claiming this has ALWAYS been a problem, not one that just popped up when he reached 30 years old. In fact, he quit lifting for years, got fat, started training again, lost weight and got skinny. He sounds like the typical guy with average genetics who doesn’t really lift that hard and then stops eating enough to gain if he thinks he is gaining any body fat at all. It becomes some yo-yo process where they may eat a little more for a little while, but since they really aren’t lifting hard enough to promote an adaptive response, the extra calories simply build up as extra fat.

Perception is one of the largest factors. I have seen people lifting in the gym and, in the past, have even asked some if that was the most they could lift. Many times, if you added more weight to the bar or machine, they could actually do more, they just never pushed themselves to try it before. They mentally lacked the belief that they could or believed that it was too hard.