T Nation

Ecto/Endo Gaining Fat Losing Muscle


Because i am an ecto/endomorph (i gain weight easily, dont los it, i also lose muscle easily and have a hard time gaining it) i tried all kinds of hard gainer bulking diets. I would end up with alot of fat gains and little muscle gain (and i have been sticking to good carbs, grains etc.). At this point id try cutting i would lost some fat but also end up losing the muscle at which point i go back to bulking. after one year my net muscle gain has been very little my net fat gain alot. Please help... i dont know what to do!!! any suggestions, any website and book im willing to try anything. Please!!!


160 lbs

25% bodyfat

supps: muscle milk , nitro tech, casien, desxtrose, creatine, NO, GABAA, BCAA, Multi vitamin, Nitric oxide,

Thank you!


I would strongly recomend weight training. There are a number of great programs here. Find one that suites your needs and give that a shot. Also drop the supps. They are intended to be supplemental to an already good diet. Search by author looking for John Berardi and Lonnie Lowery. They do a great job of explaining the dietary needs of an athlete and how to fullfill them. There is also a beginners thread in the beginners forum. It has links to all kinds of good stuff.
Good Luck.


First off, dump all the supplements that you're using other than protein since they're obviously not helping. There's no point in someone with very little muscle and over 20% body fat using them.

You probably need to place greater emphasis on your diet and training -- not pills and potions. Get back to basics by focusing on your eating and lifting.

You'll likely get more feedback if you post your daily diet and training. At this point we don't know what you're currently doing, so it's difficult to tell you what to change.


thanks for the prompt reply,

my current routine is something like this ( 10 reps with three sets are performed): machine leg press 420 lbs, supine chest fly 60 lbs, low row 140 lbs, lat pulldown 135 lbs, tricep extension 90-100 lbs, high cable curl 40-50 lbs, shrugs 90 lbs, lateral shoulder raises 20 lbs, front shoulder raise 15 lbs.

my diet as of now (trying to bulk)

7:00 unprocessed oatmeal and 4 egg
9:00 met rx bar (35g of protein)
11:00 packet of deli meat (30 g of protien, apple, water, nuts, grapes

1:00 met rx bar

3:00 burrito w/ extra meat from baja or muscle milk

5:00 workout

5:45 post workout meal 1: celltech creatine with dextrose..

5:50 nitro tech two scoopes

7:45 post workout meal 2: muscle milk (made with real milk instead of water) fruit, crackers cereal.

9:00 chicken breast (if available) or shake w/more carbs.

11:00 pre bed meal, cottage cheese or casien



quite frankly, for your current goals, your workout is useless.

First and foremost, you aren't doing proper exercises. Secondly, your weight/rep scheme is wrong.

Read some Chad Waterbury articles to get yourself informed as to WHY you need to do different exercises and different schemes. I'm not telling you to jhump into one of his programs. I don't even knoe if you are ready for a full blown Waterbury yet, but at least you will begin to get a better mindset as to your needs.

Enjoy the site and have fun. It's not about immediate/drastic results. It's about setting yourself up for positive results.

I agree with the former advice to really eye your diet. Your sample diet looked good--albeit the celltech could be skipped for something better--and you could/should focus on your pre-workout meal as much as your post--but overall satisfactory. This combined with your advanced workout should show results soon.

It's up to you to stick with it. Be honest with yourself and don't expect perfection. Live by the 75% rule. Do it right most of the time and you'll be fine.


Sounds to me like you may be very carb sensitive. The anabolic diet may be a good choice for you. Check out mdragon's thread, "My experience on the Anabolic Diet".


im going to agree with whoever said that workout was useless.

some of these numbers just seem off- if you are doing your triceps work with 90-100lbs that sounds a little heavy which means youre probably using crap form. i am 5'9" 180lbs 8% bf (work at a gym had it checked by a trainer/NPC bodybuilder yesterday). just to give some more idea, im also pretty proportional, 16" arms, 15.5" calves- for those who know that trick (which should be everyone)...anyway, 90-100lbs would be heavy for me, and it sounds like im quite a bit more muscular. same thing with those laterals. dude, 20's for laterals? i promise you are not doing them with proper form. i use 10's for my laterals, 15s for front raises, and it is hell- and my shoulders are nothing to laugh at, i regularly do overheads with 80lb dumb's. >>not trying to make this sound like a personal advertisement, although it may, im just giving a real life example to compare to, so that you might see why im saying your numbers seem off and therefore your form is probably crap....im taking this route as opposed to saying BS! theres no way you can do that, because some people are gifted i guess...but if you want to see positive gains i would invest in at least one session with a personal trainer- someone who is certified, and big and cut- because pencil necks can be certified too, but why would you listen to someone who has the knowledge but "chooses" not to use it for themselves?

PT session should include advice on a diet that fits your personal needs as well- thats why its PERSONAL training. i wouldnt pay for a photocopy pulled out of a folder.

PT sessions generally range from $45-65/session/hour. (i live in MD in case prices are diff where you live) you should be able to bang out a tailored workout plan and meal plan in 2 sessions max. im suggesting this to you because youre already spending a shitload of money on supps- save most of it and throw a little into 2 PT sessions and youll be spending your money much more wisely