T Nation

Ecstacy

Count grapefruit juice extended the half-life of ecstacy like it does with ephedrine? Has anyone had experience with grapefruit juice and E?

I have not tried Ecstasy either with grapefruit juice or without. But, grapefruit juice would not be expected to prolong the duration of action of Ecstasy, but would inhibit the absorption: acidic juices are known to impair absorption of amphetamines, and Ecstasy is an amphetamine.

Yes, it does help. :slight_smile: Just as alcohol will greatly diminish it’s effect.

Talk about off topic - need any help getting a better hit from your crack? Bill is right about citrus - people use OJ to come down. If you are using and I tell you its well known pot will bring the peak back big time will you pay attention when I say that while pure stuff might be a nice (although mostly a bit introverted and anti social) sensation, buying and taking tabs or caps is chemical russian roulette because you are getting more trial and error concoction than mdma or whatever it is you are after. Taking this sort or crap isnt exactly a tman thing but if you are that messed up and feel the need, it should be no more than 1 every few weeks and use a tester kit or log onto a site like dance org or whatever that tests the types on the market and reports on them so you can find out what you are taking and not end up with a spine like the golden arches. There is far more negative lecturing where that came from including on actual side effects but ill leave it there.

Bill, is taking 5-HTP everyday for the week(s) between Ecstacy use beneficiial for boosting the drug’s effectiveness, especially in quite frequent users? I have never taken Ecstacy my self, but friends have started to do this regime and believe it works very well. I have read of “serotonin syndrome” with 5-HTP and SSRI anti-depressants however, so warned them against this.
Do you know anything about this, as far off topic as it is?
Thanks.

H, I am not really sure, because I’m no expert on Ecstasy, but from what I’ve read and which makes sense to me, 5-HTP afterwards is a good idea to replenish serotonin levels. Like you, I’d be dubious of using it every day prior to the Ecstasy use for the sake of enhancing effect.

Another important thing seems to be to use ALA
before the Ecstasy use, to minimize the free radical damage that otherwise occurs to the brain. I don’t recall the dose… I suppose it would be the highest dose of ALA that is recommended for general use.

I am sorry Bill but my opinion of you has suffered as a result of your even answering this whackos question.

A.R., why is it a bad thing, if people are going to be using a drug, to advise them on how they can mitigate or perhaps avoid the brain damage the drug can otherwise cause?

So far as I know, those who are going to use Ecstasy, are going to use it regardless if I give them advice on how an antioxidant can help protect them from free radical damage to the brain, or whether I withhold that advice.

This is a bizarre thread, but… I have always heard that Vit c. increases your high, whether it be acid, weed, etc (I haven’t heard about x). I don’t know from personal experience, but several friends (who do have experience) have told me this.

Here is the chemistry behind that.

Amphetamines are, not surprisingly, a class of chemical compounds known as amines. These include a nitrogen which can either be bonded to three other atoms within the molecule, in which case the nitrogen is neutrally charged, or the nitrogen may also bond to a proton (acquired from water) in which case the nitrogen has a positive charge.

In the case of MDMA, the molecule will have a positive charge if it is protonated, or will be neutral if not protonated.

Now, here is the interesting thing. At around pH 7, actually about 90% (very roughly) of the MDMA is protonated. About 10% is not. As pH goes down (more acidic), a higher percentage is protonated, or as it goes up (more alkaline or basic) the percentage goes down.

So far as the activity of the drug in the blood, it is the protonated form which is active. So if you increase this, you do increase activity. However, since already about 90% is protonated, there isn’t much room for improvement, especially because blood pH will NOT change much at all from oral ingestion of acidic substances like Vitamin C. I very definitely expect that it is placebo effect that causes the apparent improvement, but yes, theoretically, if the blood is made slightly more acidic the drug is slightly more active.

So far as absorption is concerned, however, the opposite is true. Only the neutral MDMA is absorbed. That doesn’t mean only 10% is absorbed… at any given moment, only the 10% (or so) that is neutral is available for absorption, but at some later moment, a molecule that right now is charged, will be neutral and thus also available for absorption. So, ultimately, perhaps everything can be absorbed, but the higher percentage that is charged, the slower this will be, and at some point, maybe you won’t absorb it all. So, acidic conditions delay or reduce absorption.

This is apparently true not only for absorption from the GI tract, but also reabsorption within the kidneys. If the urine is not too acidic, then MDMA (or other amphetamines) that are excreted into the urine are often reabsorbed and returned to the blood. However, if the urin is acidic, too small a percentage of the amphetamine is uncharged, and the protonated, positively charged amphetamine is trapped in the urine and cannot be reabsorbed.

So, acidifying your urine, for example with an acidic juice, speeds the clearance of an amphetamine from the system.

I have no problem with what you state is your intention Bill but what I do have a problem with is that you were advising that the acidity of the fruit juice inhibits the absorption of amphetamines like E. In my opinion this was advice on how to accentuate the high, not on how to prevent brain damage.

Actually it was just responding to a direct question on what effect grapefruit juice would be expected to have, and what I was saying was, changing to also using grapefruit juice would be expected not only to not prolong the duration of action, but to inhibit absorption. It is true that if I were out to screw with people I could have said, “Sure, go ahead and use the grapefruit juice,” on the hopes that I’d be “protecting them from themselves” by
making them think that something that reduces absorption of amphetamines, doesn’t.

I’m not out to protect people from themselves by either misinformation or by withholding information they would consider useful, when they’ve asked for information.

Avoid Roids, I think that the Body For Life Forum needs an experienced, ignorant, moderator that has plenty of experience as an aerobics instructor. Check it out. Oh, and by the way, stay the fuck off threads that are too controversial for you. Who the fuck are YOU to cut down Bill Roberts, a man who goes above and beyond to help EVERYBODY on this forum. I believe too many people on this board take his genius for granted. Bill, you’re the shit. Don’t let this little pud discourage you from the phenomenal job you do helping people and developing new, cutting edge products. I for one appreciate all of your hard work!

Thanks, Sig. But actually I believed A.R.'s opinion on this is one that is representative of how a lot of people feel about providing information, or say pharmacies providing needles etc, about illegal drug use, and I felt his replies were perfectly rational, civil, well-written etc and was not in the least offended by them. Thank you for your kind words though! And I do appreciate that it probably is annoying wasting time reading responses from people who aren’t contributing on the thread, but only adding a complaint that someone else is. Still, personally I think it’s totally valid for someone to share their differing views on these topics.

I think you are dancing around it Bill but no matter. If your intentions are pure, that is what counts.

As for that miscreant who had a roid rage just after your post, don’t worry sonny. It may get stiff again someday. Until then, put it where your mommy spanked you.

A.R. needs to be worried about himself and not other people…Bill is right…People will use drugs regardless of whether he responds to the thread or not…If I do decide to do ecstacy I will take ALA (mentioned by Bill) with it to help against potential free radical damage. This is something I would have never known of if Bill had not responded to the thread. Just because someone decides to use drugs it does not automatically make them a BAD person. So I think A.R. should mind his own business. Bill, thanks for the advice, everyone(well almost everyone) appreciates what you do for the forum…

bill could anything be used to prolong the effectiveness of g or its analogs, or is there anything i should take with it to prevent any side effects

I know this may seem cruel or weird, but I don’t give a shit if some druggy kills himself using bad shit. Helps clear the gene pool of his or her bad genes.

-Paul

I agree with Sig on this one… Avoid Roids needs to check out the muscle media website…By the way, Avoid Roids should now post his responses under the name God since that is who he thinks he is…

For your information, I happen to think that Bill Roberts is great. I have said that on other threads previously. What I took exception to is what appears to be an answer posted by him to some whacked out question on mind altering drugs that would likely be construed as to how to avoid diluting the impact of X on one’s mind. I do not believe advice like that is appropriate for this particular board. Either is advice on the formula for mixing the most potent speedball. That crap belongs on some whacked out drug users board. Topics such as steroids are appropriate here, in my opinion. And I would vote for their legalization today if you had someone like Bill Roberts monitoring a user’s usage. However, that is not the case and I see a lot of young folks screw up their health and psyche because of improper use. Hence, I believe that one should avoid roids. Bill’s posting on another thread which asked for logical reasons NOT to use steroids was one of the best I have seen. I would like to see it in the FAQ section in T-Mag. A lot of the other posts on that same thread were reasons why is it ok to use recovery enhancing illegal substances. That was NOT what the thread was asking for but the users felt they had to jump in and justify their use anyway. In regards as to whether steroid enhanced results are real or not, let me ask you this. You find out from a friend that your woman is cheating on you. She denies it. You sneak some truth serum into her coffee and she now admits it. Has she been forthright and confessed or was it the drug confessing? According to the roiders point of you, it shouldn’t matter. But guess what…to me it would. And if you don’t like, I could care less.