T Nation

ECN Stack?


So I've just ordered some ephedrine. Up till now for the past few weeks I've been giving nicotine gum a go for the appetite suppression and metabolic effects.

I've also found that nicotine and caffeine work synergistically.

Does anybody see a problem with combining all three? I can't seem to find a reference for this particular combination.


I've never heard of those being used together, but EC is extremely powerful by itself, I doubt you will need anything else.


[quote]Gumpshmee wrote:
So I've just ordered some ephedrine. [quote]

Where did you order the ephedrine from- can you say? I remember a while back that its the ephedrine alkaloids that are important and not just ephedrine extract. Is that what you ordered?


Jesus, man....why not just...you know, eat a bit less and lift heavy things when cutting and eat more and lift heavy things when trying to gain mass? I feel like getting to the point where you're using nicotine gum for the "metabolic effects" and appetite suppression is a good time to really reassess your approach. Sounds a bit extreme when there are other options.


I understand your concern. The training and diet is covered:

Rest days: 1800 cals, 170g protein, <100g of carbs, higher fat
Training days: 2200 cals, 170g protein, ~200g carbs, lower fat

Training: Mon/Wed/Fri - Heavy Pull/Push/Squat

MD's Glucose Disposal Agent
Fish Oil
Virgin Coconut Oil (it's special enough in my mind)
Vit D
Coenzyme Q10 (BBB's protocol)
PGX (lol, giving it a trial run)
Nicorette 2mg gum (I have never smoked fyi)

I'm 5'11" 170 at about 9-10% bodyfat. By January 1st I want to be in the 6-7% range.

I acknowledge that this is on the light side, but my aesthetic priorities are different.


I've heard a lot of good things about the EC (or ECA) stack (I've also heard the hysteria). I have been on HOT-ROX Extreme.

Do I need this? No. I could probably get to my goal with turkey, lettuce, and gumption. Am I an optimization freak? Yes. Am I ready to take T3 and clenbuterol? No.

It's ephedrine HCL 8 mg, and it's sold OTC in canada for nasal decongestion. It cannot be legally combined with caffeine and sold in canada. I'll be buying my own caffeine tablets. You can also get ephedrine in the US, so I've heard, individual state laws apply.


If you are in the states you can buy Bronkaid from most pharmacies, but you have to ask for it behiind the counter and sign for it. You are only allowed to buy one box at a time.


HOT-ROX has nothing on EC. Be prepared though, it's a very intense appetite suppressant. I had a hard time stomaching a 750cal meal on EC when I first started taking it. It also melts fat off, unlike any legit supplement you can buy. But the appetite suppressant effects wear off after about two weeks. Also, be prepared to lose some sleep, you'll be wired like a crack addict all day (and most of the night).


I guess I would have two questions:

1.) Wanting to be 6-7% by January 1st...why? What's the next step from there?

2.) As far as aesthetic priorities, I guess I don't get what you mean. If your only goal is to be a skinny dude, that's not very difficult...your body is going to want to have enough muscle on it to get you to 170lbs, so just lift weights, even moderately, and eat a sensible diet. I don't see why you would need appetite suppresents/blahblahblah on top of a sensible diet...

Hell, I'd almost suggest just lifting like a couple days a week and doing sprint work and such instead.

So, what are your goals? Your calories are already low as hell, so I don't see how anything else is needed to help you get to 5'11, 170lbs.


1) From january, maintenance for 2 weeks, then slow bulk for 40 weeks (+0.5 lbs/week, 20 lbs total). Hoping that slightly over half of that gain will be lean.

This is in contrast to when I bulked from 160 at 12% to 210 in a hurry and ended up cutting all the way down to 170 @ 9% where I am now. I've netted about 10 lbs of muscle in a little over a year. I see room for improvement.

The full story is that I was 190 before being starved by student poverty (60,000 dollar student loans anyone?) all the way down to 160... and I wanted to reclaim my former glory in a hurry. But looking at pictures of 190... I wasn't as lean as I thought I was. And at 210 that definitely was not the case.

2) Some prioritize size> low bodyfat (good for them, I like those people). I prioritize low BF before size. My ultimate goal is to be 185 @5-7% (Yes I realize I will have to overshoot and cut to get to that). I also understand that for a natural of my frame this is very ambitious: http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

I want to use EC to hasten the process, that is after all it's purpose. By nature I am very impatient. I am not going to particularly enjoy gaining only .5 lbs/week when I know how easy it is for me to hammer back food. I feel that my ultimate goal is about 2-3 years away whether I do it lean or otherwise.

This is also an experiment to judge the Intermittent Fasting approach to gaining weight.


That's what I like to hear.

At least I won't have to be on EC for very long. I only need to lose approximately 5 lbs here. I have heard that it works better when you are leaner... which is very encouraging.


People's reaction to certain stimulants can vary greatly. HOT-ROX has Yohimbine in it and some people, like myself, have horrible reactions to it. I'm fine with EC, unless I take too much.

The OP should use the minimal amount, then adjust the dosage accordingly.


I'll be starting at 8 mg of ephedrine HCL working up to 4 times daily. The only thing that really got me stimulated (and I've only started using stimulants coffee included, in the past 3 months) was the combination of green tea extract, HOT-ROX, caffeine, and nicotine... then I felt jazzed but not overstimulated. So we'll see what happens with ephedrine. I hope it rocks my world so I can use less.


I'd pick 2 and rotate them every couple of weeks. Jmo.


Yeah, 2 weeks EC, 2 weeks Yohimbine.


Taking ephedrine and yohimbine at the same time is like stepping on the throttle and brakes at the same time...not a good idea. Like others have suggested, use them separately..

Do your research and don't rely on forum advice with serious shit like this. You're talking about legitimate stimulants.


I agree with this comment. EC is serious business. I was definitely not prepared for how hard it hits the first time I used it. Be intelligent about your cycle. This website has some good information on doing an EC cycle: http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm


Thanks for that info btw. My Ephedrine has arrived. I'll be starting tomorrow.


86 the nicotine gum. Worthless for your goals, and the effects if unaccustomed, when stacked with other stims, will not be pleasant.

Also, nicotine cuts the half-life of caffeine, so's you know. Pretty worthless as an ergogenic, IYAM.


Yeah I won't be stacking the nicotine with ephedrine.

8 mg ephedrine 3x/day is pretty light. I think I'll stay at this dosage for a few day before increasing though.