T Nation

ECDyBOL products your input: Cy Willson and Joel Marion please.

Alright I’m not trying to start a war here, but since you both are from opposite sides of the fence on this matter I value your input. Cy after reading your article on ECDyBOL type substances I really can’t see how they could do anything worth while namely due to the fact that the human body has no receptor sites for insectoid hormones.(I think I said that right.) Therefore if this is the case than how an anabolic effect could happen to any great degree is a mystery to me. Now Joel I realize you have ummmmmmm a contract or obligation with EAS so… Regardless do you attribute ECDyBOL to have helped you signifcantly? Have you read Cy’s article? You seem to have a reasonable amount of knowledge, sciencewise can you make an arguement as to how ECDyBOL could be anabolic? Thanks Guys. :slight_smile:

I have no obligation to EAS other than to not promote other companies products publically (as in ads or something like that). But, I use plenty of other manufacturer’s products, Biotest esp.

I'm not a big fan of Pinnacle products, and after looking EcdyBol, I'm still not. The dosage is too low to see noticable results and it's pretty darn expensive.

A new EAS product, EcdyMax HP, has recently hit the market and it by far superior to EcdyBol. The extract is much more potent and the dosage higher; it also contains a potent trib extract as well as an anti-E ingredient.

In a recent 28-day study, avergage lbm gain was 6lbs (up to 10 lbs), while losing 1 lb of fat with no changes in diet or training.

I have placed my order for the product (it's on backorder) and will let you know how things pan out after I actually use it. I have used MethoxyFactor HP in the past with good results and this product looks significantly better in many ways...like I said, the research looks promising.

Does anyone have any more information on the research done on this Ecdymax HP product? Those claims sound absurd. A 28 day study where the average person gained 6pds. of lbm? And without gaining any additional body fat? No change in the diet? Where can I read more about this study?

Iv’e done both and got NOTHING out of either EAS product unfortunately because I’d really like a non hormonal product to work anabolically.

The ONLY similar product I’ve ever had that REALLY worked (like 12 pounds/4 weeks) the 2 times I’ve tried it is Zebutol made by Zoe Discoveries lab. It supposedly has a strain of suma plant extract in it… it gives me an absolutely ferocious appetite each time I’ve done it… and 3 pounds a week for 3-5 weeks… then tails off.

I share your skepticism. I’ve never known anyone who used ecdysterone products to produce any noticeable changes in size or body composition. If you could gain 6-10lbs. of LBM and lose bodyfat at the same time, why would you ever want to take prohormones or prosteriods like MAG, or 4AD? Why would you screw with your endocrine system when you could take a non-hormonal ecdysterone product and gain the same amount of muscle - without making changes to diet and stuffing your face with 1000 cals over maintenance? Doesn’t make sense to me. The gains don’t sound realistic.

I have a simple question for the EAS guy: Please cite, exactly, what “studies” that you say show favorable results for ecdysterone.

Also, are those studies on humans or bugs and rats, and are they the scientifically unsound and much-rebutted Russian studies from way way back whose results no one has been able to reproduce?

Gee I wonder who sponsered that study. Hmmm let me see. Could it be, I dunno, just of the top of my head, EAS. I’m just guessing mind you. From what I have seen listed all of these products except Syntrabol are low dosed. 20mg verus 200mg. I know what I would buy if I wasn’t going to buy Methoxy.

I am working on getting as much information about the EcdymaxHP field study as possible. I believe it was conducted at the University of Ohio. Most likely, it has not been published yet. I’ll get as much information as I can and post it.

And, I can almost guarantee that EAS funded the research...it takes money to do research in a lab setting, and if you want your product researched to verify it's effectivness, then you are going to have to pay for it. Research isn't free and university labs just dont go around testing supplements (not specific brand name products at least)...Kudos to EAS for putting up the money to get their product researched instead of just making absurd claims with no scientific support as most companies do.

The dosage is 240 mg daily, which seems to be beneficial for individuals <225 lbs. Slighty more may be beneficial for individual >225 lbs.

if eas paid for the study then the study is biased!!