T Nation

Ecdy and Mag 10 and others

Hi. I’m new here and wanted some opinions on my supplament strategy. I feel like I got all the bases covered but not sure really.
I’m 6 ft tall 230 lbs. Trying to lose some fat and add some lean body mass.
Here is what I take on a daily basis:
Mag-10 (for the next 2 weeks)
Ecdy max
6 grams HMB
6 grams creatine monohydrate
5 grams L- glutamine
4 grams taurine
4g L-Alanine
1 g glycine
1 g inositol
500 mg RNA
1000 mg vitamin c ( for those pesky free radicals)
4-6 grams of CLA
at least 2 “workout shakes” per day that have a little bit of everything in this list and then some stuff I know I need but don’t track faithfully.
and of course tons of Vp2 protein cuzz eating 400g of protein with whole foods is damn near impossible for me :slight_smile:
So the question is are there any things I’m taking that might work against each other or is there a gaping hole in my supplamentation that I don’t see? Constructive opinions welcome :slight_smile:

Drop the crap HMB and ECDY stuff to begin with. And “workout shakes” with a little bit of everything are a scam. Think you need to read the “Dirty Tricks” article at T-mag. Look it up in previous issues. You’re wasting alot of money. MAG-10 is good. Drop most of the other crap. How do you train? What do you eat?

  1. Use the Ecdy after Mag10. EcdyMax is a T booster/E reducer via Trib. (who knows if the Ecdy itself is worth it? Very controversial)
  2. Read the latest stuff here on Glutamine
  3. Might even bump the creatine to 10.
  4. Get some GROW for all other times non-post w.o. VP2 is pure whey, correct?
  5. EFA’S!! FLAX, FISH, UDO’s, CLA not critical.
    6)Multi-v, maybe more E, calcium, ZMA.
    7)Maybe T2PRO if you want to minimize fat gain while bulking
  6. All of this is a waste if you don’t lift VERY hard and get good recovery. I assume your diet is in order. In the meantime, read the “food” articles here at TMAG, and any other item that seems applicable or of interest to you. Good Luck!

Yeah, almost missed that one: take the HMB and throw it as hard as possible at the forehead of the guy who sold it to you. It’s a joke.

ok so to answer your questions in order my
"how do you train ? What do you eat?
Well training I do the only way I know how and thats the BFL way. ( flame on flamers :slight_smile: I do set of increasing weight for example: ( don’t laugh im a newbie) squats: 1x12x135, 1x10x155, 1x8x165, 1x6x175, 1x12x135 and the last set a different excersise for the same muscle of 1x12x120. 60 reps for each muscle group. it allows me to warm up and go heavy ( for me) while working to failure. There is only 1 min rest between sets for all of my workouts and 2 min between muscle groups.
as far as eating goes its chicken breasts tuna,cottage cheese fat free milk, fat free cheese, whole wheat bread and other whole foods etc etc. I eat 6-8 times a day depending on what suplament I’m taking I.E. Mag 10.
And from what I can gather from the rest of the posts I should get a multivitamin, get some more essetial fats and dump the HMB. All I want to know is why ppl dont’ like the HMB. It was supposed to be an Anti-catabolic nothing more. How do you guys know its not working or doesn’t work? Just wondering really.
Well I thank you for your advice. I’m open to all suggestions. and I do think I will get a multi-vitamin. Anyone reccomend a good protien powder with BCAA’s or what ever I should be getting? Or wil the VP2 be ok?

Oh yeah on the T2pro isn’t the Forskoli just a different name for ephedra? I don’t mind it becuse I usedto take a product that has ephedra but I don’t want the caffine that it had it in it. Also I’m somewhat troubled, My first 2 weeks I couldn’t move without muscle soreness and pain. It was dreadful. I couldn’t even sit down with out discomfort. Now that has all gone away. because of the way I schedule my workouts, I tend to put more weight on the bar for every excercise each time I go. It may only be a little but it constantly goes up and has been for the last 4 weeks. Despite all of that I hardly ever get sore?!? I have siome “tightness” sometimes but i dont’ get it. Each workout so far has been better that the previous ) or harder to do at least) and yet I’m never get sore? Am I doing something wrong?

1)BFL ain’t bad to grow on. I would ditch it later though and find something that meets your needs/wants.
2)HMB would work to some degree. In massive doses that is and since it’s $$$, it friggin ridiculous to spend $ on this when they’re much better stuff out there. Much like CLA.
3) Forskolin(sp?) IS NOT EPHEDRA. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. READ!!! A few articles on it here.
4)Soreness does not corrolate to muscle gain. Big falacy. Which reminds me, unless your juiced, only use failure principle as a “shock” every now and then (once a month in my opinion, if at all). As Auuunold says, “Stimulate. Don’t annilalate.”

Well I’m not “Juiced” in the traditional sense but the Mag-10 has to be a similar feeling. Well, the failure method must be the only way I know becuse thats what doing that many sets with that many reps will do to you :slight_smile: The final 2 sets of 12 are done with no rest inbetween them, tho they are much less weight they burn like a sonofa’ ! Thats what I mean when I say to failure but its only once in the set at the end, with low weight. I dunno. I’ve lost 60 lbs so far doing it that way. I’m not advanced enough to do the workouts in the massive eating plan. Heck I don’t even know what some of those are. Since I’m on mag-10 right now it would be silly to change up the workout mid stream but once I’m off of BFL I will experiment with other methods of working out for greater gains.
BTW I went out and got some of the essential fats and the Pro2 as well. I will increase my creatine intake as well. Heck, if thats what responsible for me not being sore ( which is my theory) then I don’t mind upping the dose. It couldn’t hurt.
Thanks for the help 8p

If you are already drinking MRP’s you’re probably already getting all the vitamins/minerals you need…so spend your money on the vit. C and E and maybe some green tea extract or T-2 Pro (the original T-2 is awesome and you can still find some at Netrition.com). HMB may be useful in larger doses immediately before and immediately after training, but I really doubt it. When it first came out, I took up to 6 grams a day and I really did not notice a difference in muscle size or strength. Stick with a reputable brand of creatine. VP2 is great, but I would save some money and buy one of the more affordable 5 lb. containers of whey concentrate. I am just telling you from experience that I have not noticed a difference when taking whey isolate or concentrate (or any other protein for that matter, as long as you’re getting all of the essential amino acids that you need.) If you are taking in about 200-400 grams of protein a day, you do not need to take any extra individual amino acids such as glutamine. I think you’re already getting more than enough in your whole protein meals and shakes. Methoxy is better than Ecdy, period. Get a bottle of Surge for a post workout recovery meal instead of using Ecdy or Methoxy if you need to save money. If money is no option, then go ahead and do it all you lucky bastard!!!

About a year and a half ago there was a lot of controversy about Ecdy products and whether or not they really work. There was enough interest that several regular forum contributors decided to run specific trials on their bodies to determine once and for all (well, you know what I mean). I posted a follow-up thread about two months later, asking for results. Despite bumping it several times, no one answered. Furthermore, there hasn’t been any real interest in/discussion of ecdy products on the Forum since.

All this tells me that these products are not particularly effective (at least a this point). Ergo, I’d drop the Ecdy if I were you, rich or not.

Oh, and it was Lee Haney who made the “stimulate” comment, not Arnold.

I gave ECDY an honest test, at 5mg/kg/day. Got nothing from it, except I seemed to “feel better.” This may be due to it’s legitimate effects as an antioxidant. Unfortunately, nature did not provide me with bug hormone receptors. The study the manufacturers reference grew muscle in the liver–many of our Board participants have plus-sized livers already, thank you. EAS recently sent me a study “proving the efficacy of ECDY”–but in it the oral supplement was introduced intra-peritoneally. I may be wrong, but I don’t think that’s very practical for most of us.