T Nation

** ECA Stack Long Term Use **

#1

3 months ago i've tried the ECA stack for the first time in my 4 of year weight lifting .. At first i've used it to drop some bodyfat, but i've been more amazed by my strengh gain,energy focus and endurance. I've been beating all of my personal record (even with a low carb style diet )

my pre-workout stack :
-200 mg caffeine
-25 mg ephedrine
-325 mg aspirin
-600 mg green tea extract

note: i also take 10g BCAA pre and post workout and 1000mg vitamin C during workout

i use the stack 3 times per week ( pre-workout) monday, wednesday and friday

I've tried not to take it and my workout where normal or simply aweful .. no motivation, weakness, difficulty to finish my set..

  • I was just wondering if that stack taken 3 time per week (total of 600mg caff and 75mg ephedrine weekly) can cause some serious health risk or cause nervous system damage or any other problems ??

Thanks

#2

I would drop the aspirin, it doesn’t really do much and I imagine taking it 3x a week can’t be good for you. Then again, Ive never done a EC or ECA stack, so I can’t really compare

#3

[quote]emjay777 wrote:
I’ve tried not to take it and my workout where normal or simply aweful … no motivation, weakness, difficulty to finish my set…
[/quote]

This is a good sign that you should probably lay off the stimulants for a while.

#4

[quote]Muscles297 wrote:
I would drop the aspirin, it doesn’t really do much and I imagine taking it 3x a week can’t be good for you. Then again, Ive never done a EC or ECA stack, so I can’t really compare[/quote]

Do you know why the caffeine is included in the stack?

EDIT

Complete error on my part. I meant to type aspirin instead of caffeine.

#5

Anyone here have used the ECA stack (pre-workout only) over a prolonged period ??

btw, i feel realy fine the days that i dont take the ECA (non-workout days) and i dont have any crash the days i take the ECA stack i even feel energized for the rest of the days.

Never felt any side effect when i take the ECA stack beside the 2-3 first time i took it

I eat a lot of good fats ( olive oil, fish oil , flax seed oil, almonds) and alot of green veggie and antioxidants. Which, i think promote good nervous system and adrenal health…

#6

[quote]Muscles297 wrote:
I would drop the aspirin, it doesn’t really do much and I imagine taking it 3x a week can’t be good for you. Then again, Ive never done a EC or ECA stack, so I can’t really compare[/quote]

I would drop the aspirin too, or at least switch to baby aspirin 75mg.

#7

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Muscles297 wrote:
I would drop the aspirin, it doesn’t really do much and I imagine taking it 3x a week can’t be good for you. Then again, Ive never done a EC or ECA stack, so I can’t really compare

Do you know why the caffeine is included in the stack?
[/quote]

To amplify the effects of Ephedrine. More energy and fat loss… using aspirin might help counteract the increase of blood pressure, but performance wise it doesnt help.

#8

[quote]emjay777 wrote:
eat a lot of good fats ( olive oil, fish oil , flax seed oil, almonds) and alot of green veggie and antioxidants. Which, i think promote good nervous system and adrenal health…[/quote]

^^^THIS
way better that using aspirin

#9

Honestly i’m more concern about the long term risk of Ephedrine and caffeine than aspirin. But i’ll defenetly cut the aspirin from the stack

#10

Yeah, I’m busting the ECA on my workout days too, I switch off to a yohimbe/caffeine when I wanna lay off teh ephedrine.

But yeah, maybe try some powerdrive pre-workout without caffeine and see how that treats you. Powerdrive is some good stuff, no caffeine or anything either, just tyrosine, phosphodisterine or somethine, and DMAE or whatever. But I’ve noticed its an instant mental boost!

#11

I’d heard something about it down regulating receptors in the adrenal glands after a while, but I’m sure if you take a break from the ephedrine every month or two you should be fine

#12

Ephidrene will cause problems long term - apart from the fact it simply stops giving its beneficial effect, you may end up with adrenal fatigue, i know of a few who have been a little too fond of this drug (it is addictive for some) and found that CFS was not too far away - ending up fat and tired.

As with everything, too much of a good thing is not good at all.

I am sure you KNOW you shouldn’t be on it long term, that’s why you are asking - you just want someone to say “sure - I do it, and i am f-f-f-f-fine”

:wink:

#13

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#14

[quote]emjay777 wrote:
3 months ago i’ve tried the ECA stack for the first time in my 4 of year weight lifting … At first i’ve used it to drop some bodyfat, but i’ve been more amazed by my strengh gain,energy focus and endurance. I’ve been beating all of my personal record (even with a low carb style diet )

my pre-workout stack :
-200 mg caffeine
-25 mg ephedrine
-325 mg aspirin
-600 mg green tea extract

note: i also take 10g BCAA pre and post workout and 1000mg vitamin C during workout

i use the stack 3 times per week ( pre-workout) monday, wednesday and friday

I’ve tried not to take it and my workout where normal or simply aweful … no motivation, weakness, difficulty to finish my set…

  • I was just wondering if that stack taken 3 time per week (total of 600mg caff and 75mg ephedrine weekly) can cause some serious health risk or cause nervous system damage or any other problems ??

Thanks
[/quote]

i have been using the eca stack on and off for years! you are only using it 3 times per week, you are fine! just pay attention to your body and when you feel like its not as strong or isnt giving you the energy and endurance it was then take a few weeks off, find a good pre workout drink, I like beta nox by ids…its the shit! then go back to the eca stack. as long as you continue to switch things up and give your body breaks you shouldnt have any problems!

#15

[quote] Brook wrote:
Ephidrene will cause problems long term - apart from the fact it simply stops giving its beneficial effect, you may end up with adrenal fatigue, i know of a few who have been a little too fond of this drug (it is addictive for some) and found that CFS was not too far away - ending up fat and tired.

As with everything, too much of a good thing is not good at all.

I am sure you KNOW you shouldn’t be on it long term, that’s why you are asking - you just want someone to say “sure - I do it, and i am f-f-f-f-fine”

;)[/quote]

Yes i do know thats its probably not a good idea to be on it for long term … espescialy for those who take it for fat loss purpose (3 time the recommended dose per day and up for 6-7days a week). What i was wondering was if using it pre-worwout only 3 time per week (never 2 days in a row) with the recommmended dosage would cause problem. Answer from long-term pre-workout user would be appreciated.

#16

[quote]emjay777 wrote:
Brook wrote:
Ephidrene will cause problems long term - apart from the fact it simply stops giving its beneficial effect, you may end up with adrenal fatigue, i know of a few who have been a little too fond of this drug (it is addictive for some) and found that CFS was not too far away - ending up fat and tired.

As with everything, too much of a good thing is not good at all.

I am sure you KNOW you shouldn’t be on it long term, that’s why you are asking - you just want someone to say “sure - I do it, and i am f-f-f-f-fine”

:wink:

Yes i do know thats its probably not a good idea to be on it for long term … espescialy for those who take it for fat loss purpose (3 time the recommended dose per day and up for 6-7days a week). What i was wondering was if using it pre-worwout only 3 time per week (never 2 days in a row) with the recommmended dosage would cause problem. Answer from long-term pre-workout user would be appreciated.

[/quote]

Clearly if you use a lower dose and less frequently, then potential negative effects will be less likely - however knowing a little about the drugs pharmacodynamics means that even with your suggested regime, over an extended period (or are you not doing that either now?) you are likely to experience some of the negative side effects as previously mentioned in this thread.

Also remember that you are NOT just talking about Ephidrene, but the ECA stack which it designed to potentate the drug considerably (will minus the Asprin as you have dropped that IIRC).

Of course, as i dislike the drug on many levels, i am not now nor ever going to be a long term user.

Don’t you think that ONLY accepting information about an addictive drug from long term users is asking for trouble in your own judgement?

Maybe there is something to be said for the advice from experienced and well read posters here, who decide not to use the drug long term for specific reasons?

Oh well… Happy hunting :wink:

#17

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brook wrote:
ending up fat and tired.

:wink:

…because of insulin resistance, I would bet.

ECA totally ruins my insulin resistance in very short order. It takes me 3 days to properly recover from a single ECA dose, in terms of insulin resistance.

BBB[/quote]

This deserves to be repeated for emphasis.

I realized long ago that ephedrine wasn’t worth the hassle for me. It’s gets me keyed up and kills my appetite, but wrecks my insulin sensitivity and leaves me feeling like crap.

#18

[quote]emjay777 wrote:
Brook wrote:
Ephidrene will cause problems long term - apart from the fact it simply stops giving its beneficial effect, you may end up with adrenal fatigue, i know of a few who have been a little too fond of this drug (it is addictive for some) and found that CFS was not too far away - ending up fat and tired.

As with everything, too much of a good thing is not good at all.

I am sure you KNOW you shouldn’t be on it long term, that’s why you are asking - you just want someone to say “sure - I do it, and i am f-f-f-f-fine”

:wink:

Yes i do know thats its probably not a good idea to be on it for long term … espescialy for those who take it for fat loss purpose (3 time the recommended dose per day and up for 6-7days a week). What i was wondering was if using it pre-worwout only 3 time per week (never 2 days in a row) with the recommmended dosage would cause problem. Answer from long-term pre-workout user would be appreciated.

[/quote]

I started using the ECA stack aobut 15 years ago when it first came out. At first it was before my workouts but only during cutting phases, 2-3 months. Then it would be for cutting phases before vacations in march, but I also would continue it all summer to stay lean and strong. Just like you the stuff had me breaking PR’s frequently and I had bounds of energy even when dieting down. Then me and my buddies would take it for a pick me up when partying. Little by little I guess you could say I became addicted to it taking it 4x’s a week before workouts and 2-3 nights a week for partying. So basically I was taking it from January to end of March, then again from May to September. This went on for roughly 8-10 years. My tolerance for it went up so much that it took 2-3mg pills before my workout to get the same effect and the same amount when I went out clubbing. September I would crash and and sleep for 2-3 weeks till I recouped.
Okay, now the info on how I payed a price. Started getting frequent heart palpitations but not while on it. To make a long story short after numerous tests Dr. told me I had pre atrial contractions. Harmless but scary. Also said I had a slightly enlarged left ventricle and Dr. told me to stop lifting weights and do more cardio. That wasn’t gonna happen though lol. Was it the ephedrine, I’m not sure but very probable. Also as time went on I had the annoyng side affect of constant urination which got out of control as the years went on, and still have an overactive bladder to this day.
I also tore my tri and hamstring while on it and dieting.
Haven’t touched the stuff in years. I’m not saying the stuff is terrible for you. You would probably be safe with the doses you take as long as its only a couple maonths a year. Moderation is the key to everything. Idiots like me is what gets stuff like this banned. I’m lucky my heart didn’t explode. But I really loved that stuff lol.
Moderation man.

#19

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brook wrote:
ending up fat and tired.

:wink:

…because of insulin resistance, I would bet.

ECA totally ruins my insulin resistance in very short order. It takes me 3 days to properly recover from a single ECA dose, in terms of insulin resistance.

BBB[/quote]

How do you tell if it is having a negative effect on insulin resistance?
I’ve been taking it twice a day on my cut. Went about 4 weeks with it, then 7 days off, then currently it’s been about 5 weeks on. I’m stopping it after next week, for two months, while I switch to a maintenance phase.

Currently doing very low carb, moderate fat and high protein.

Thanks for the help.

#20

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brook wrote:
ending up fat and tired.

:wink:

…because of insulin resistance, I would bet.

ECA totally ruins my insulin resistance in very short order. It takes me 3 days to properly recover from a single ECA dose, in terms of insulin resistance.

BBB[/quote]

bush, how would you know when your insulin resistance is getting fucked up?