I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!!
[quote]intenseone wrote:
I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!![/quote]
You wanna half ass it?
If I’m busting my ass in the gym I don’t wanna be anywhere near not having enough nutrients to grow. I want a crazy anabolic environment in my body 24/7.
I eat tons of food and bust my ass to create that environment.
[quote]intenseone wrote:
I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!![/quote]
After 25 years, where are you now in terms of progress?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why do you pretend as if genetics are not a factor? [/quote]
Who’s pretending that? I’m giving advice based on my previous experience to someone who is about my size and going through the same process I am.
Congrats on the food requirements. I have always needed an average amount of food which is why I try and give a different point of view than “eat 5,000 calories”… which happens on here VERY often… where do you think I got the idea?
Thats exactly my point, I ATE TOO MUCH FOOD. Everyone on this website makes that out to be impossible. Look a few posts up and you’ll see someone that says you can’t eat enough when bulking… thats the idea I’m trying to go against. The advice given on this thread that 1500 calories for breakfast is a good idea…then follow it up with a few 1,000 calorie shakes, then a 20oz steak and potatoes is being given to a guy who carries 150 pounds of LBM, I’m simply offering a different piece of advice from a guy who tried that and got fat, not built.
I don’t believe I said anywhere in my posts that “Most people have shitty genetics” or “The majority of lifters are endomorph FFBs”. I’m assuming that I have average genetics, which seems logical since most people do. The fact that you needed more food than average should tell you that most people need LESS food than you did to bulk. All I’m trying to say to these posters (who carry 150LBM) is that you DO NOT need to eat 5,000 cals a day to grow, not even close.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
intenseone wrote:
I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!!
You wanna half ass it?
If I’m busting my ass in the gym I don’t wanna be anywhere near not having enough nutrients to grow. I want a crazy anabolic environment in my body 24/7.
I eat tons of food and bust my ass to create that environment. [/quote]
Did you happen to check out the dudes pics? He knows a little about bulking if you ask me. If that’s half-assing it consider most of us 10th-assing it.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Who’s pretending that? I’m giving advice based on my previous experience to someone who is about my size and going through the same process I am. [/quote]
So this means he will see the same results from your actions?
[quote]
Congrats on the food requirements. I have always needed an average amount of food which is why I try and give a different point of view than “eat 5,000 calories”… which happens on here VERY often… where do you think I got the idea?[/quote]
I haven’t seen anyone write that this kid needs to eat 5,000cals a day or any other specific amount other than a discussion about breakfast. Maybe I missed it.
[quote]
Thats exactly my point, I ATE TOO MUCH FOOD. Everyone on this website makes that out to be impossible. Look a few posts up and you’ll see someone that says you can’t eat enough when bulking… thats the idea I’m trying to go against. The advice given on this thread that 1500 calories for breakfast is a good idea…then follow it up with a few 1,000 calorie shakes, then a 20oz steak and potatoes is being given to a guy who carries 150 pounds of LBM, I’m simply offering a different piece of advice from a guy who tried that and got fat, not built.[/quote]
1500cals for this guy’s breakfast, as I already wrote, would probably be unlikely no matter what. None of us started out eating as much as we might at a much higher body weight. That doesn’t mean he absolutely shouldn’t eat like that for one meal of the day or that he wouldn’t see anything positive from doing so or that he should never eat that way.
Many might not, but you just made that statement again as if NO ONE should. That is how it comes across. You just wrote that posters carrying 150lbs of lean body mass DO NOT need 5,000cals a day. All of them don’t? None of them will? Why the line in the sand?
Most trainers need to understand that they won’t find some cookie cutter guide to follow that works for all people all of the time. In fact, what may work for you now probably won’t work next year in terms of food intake if you actually make signifant progress. That is what needs to be made clear, not some absolute blanket statement like you keep laying down.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So this means he will see the same results from your actions? [/quote]
Not at all. Once again, I’m merely giving a different point of view to a person who is in a similar situation. Every other poster did the exact same thing, but because my advice was not to eat as much I get flammed for it. Why don’t you respond to the other posts and ask them why they assume he has the same genetics as them?
While no one has said this person NEEDS 5,000 calories a day… Most people encouraged the idea of the enourmous breakfast followed by a host of other huge meals because, hey… you gotta eat big to get big!![/quote]
Unlikely or not, it is being touted as the only way to grow(maybe not directly in this thread, but look all over this website). And I absolutely agree that there are times when it might be neccesary and beneficial to eat that much food, perhaps several times a day. This lifter is not at that point in his “career” yet in my opion, and I gave him advice based on that belief. [/quote]
I’m generalizing the average population, even here at T-Nation, and giving advice based on that. To the best of my knowledge the poster was not an athlete, didn’t carry any signifigant LBM, and wasn’t involved in activities that expended high levels of energy. Given these conditions I highly doubt that he should be following that kind of a diet, thats just my opinion and I offered it as such. The first statement I made was simply that it is possible to eat too much food, which is NOT the advice given by most on the forum.
I keep laying down the blanket statements to counteract the blanket statements made by virtually every other poster on the forum(namely food requirements). In my opinion I wasted nearly half of year of lifting(maybe even a whole year if you count the dieting i had to do) because of the diet I followed and I am trying to see that other lifters don’t make that mistake.
I have pointed people in the direction of Tailor Made Nutrition, and even offered advice as to how to start making your own customized diet before, high levels of calories included. I am all for customizing your diet and I have done that for myself. Having said that, I think it is better to start at a more conservative calorie estimate and build up rather than start to high and never come down because “its working”
In a way I think my shitty genetics help me understand the principles of diet and lifting better than someone who it comes easy too. I have to have everything down to a T or else my progress stalls and I waste time. I’m trying to help others avoid that trap, thats all.
Lets see if I can’t go get some sleep, huh?
Increasing training intensity = increasing hunger = eating more food = getting bigger
I think that’s how it works. If you’re eating more food and just getting fat, you probably arn’t lifting with much intensity or your workout just plain sucks.
I honestly don’t know how people are still arguing with Prof. X and TrainerinDC who OBVIOUSLY must be doing somthing right. Yeah, eat less and you’ll get bigger. Whatever.
To the OP: Fucking eat alot.
DD
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
The first statement I made was simply that it is possible to eat too much food, which is NOT the advice given by most on the forum. [/quote]
The first thought that popped into my mind after seeing your “progress pictures” is that you don’t train hard enough. I have seen very few people actually train hard and lift heavy who gain that much weight with what appears to be little to no gain in muscle mass. In between all of the talk about food intakes, one of the largest problems new trainers seem to have lately is they literally sleep walk through workouts. Sure, they may be writing every single insignificant piece of data into a journal, but these aren’t the people leaving the gym feeling like they gave almost everything they had and are nearly wiped out as a result. These are the grown men sitting on Hammer strength back machines and only using one plate a side when most healthy men should be able to get more than that regardless of how new they are. You don’t jump to always blaming food intake if you truly haven’t learned the concept of pushing your limits in the gym.
In one year you gained over 50lbs and I see no change in your shoulders, traps or chest. How the fuck does that happen? I think you know how and I think I just made it clear again. Beyond that, why would someone gain 50lbs in one year? I think my genetics are above average and I never did that. Mind you, that was while getting into bodybuilding back when almost every other ad in a magazine was nothing but weight gainers. My first year I gained about 25lbs and most of it was muscle mass. You gained twice that much and common sense never kicked in? And you blame food for that?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
The first statement I made was simply that it is possible to eat too much food, which is NOT the advice given by most on the forum.
The first thought that popped into my mind after seeing your “progress pictures” is that you don’t train hard enough. I have seen very few people actually train hard and lift heavy who gain that much weight with what appears to be little to no gain in muscle mass. In between all of the talk about food intakes, one of the largest problems new trainers seem to have lately is they literally sleep walk through workouts. Sure, they may be writing every single insignificant piece of data into a journal, but these aren’t the people leaving the gym feeling like they gave almost everything they had and are nearly wiped out as a result. These are the grown men sitting on Hammer strength back machines and only using one plate a side when most healthy men should be able to get more than that regardless of how new they are. You don’t jump to always blaming food intake if you truly haven’t learned the concept of pushing your limits in the gym.
In one year you gained over 50lbs and I see no change in your shoulders, traps or chest. How the fuck does that happen? I think you know how and I think I just made it clear again. Beyond that, why would someone gain 50lbs in one year? I think my genetics are above average and I never did that. Mind you, that was while getting into bodybuilding back when almost every other ad in a magazine was nothing but weight gainers. My first year I gained about 25lbs and most of it was muscle mass. You gained twice that much and common sense never kicked in? And you blame food for that?[/quote]
Hey Professor X,
I am relatively new to this forum (a few months) but I like your no nonsense approach when it comes to replies or discussions. The above reply you just mentioned was exactly what I was thinking as well. Even though I don’t know the person and I don’t want to come down on him, it seems that the caloric intake didn’t seem to match the activity/intensity level according to the pic. If I may hijack the thread a moment to ask you (Prof) a question. To go about a bulk cleanly, where do you bump the calories and the nutritents each day - pre-post workout i.e .carbs/protein or in regular meals (breakfast, afternoon, dinner), fats or a little bit of everything gradually per day. I am usually really active so it can be challenging. I did try the one weekend cheat meal with pizza (was a looong time since I had pizza) earlier in the year a few times but I didn’t like the psychological dependency after awhile (but at the same time,it was nice to look forward to at the end of the week…it was way too easy for me to polish off a box though. The mass gain was good but I fear it was in the wrong spots and perhaps bad for my health?)Thanks Prof.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
The first statement I made was simply that it is possible to eat too much food, which is NOT the advice given by most on the forum.
The first thought that popped into my mind after seeing your “progress pictures” is that you don’t train hard enough. I have seen very few people actually train hard and lift heavy who gain that much weight with what appears to be little to no gain in muscle mass. In between all of the talk about food intakes, one of the largest problems new trainers seem to have lately is they literally sleep walk through workouts. Sure, they may be writing every single insignificant piece of data into a journal, but these aren’t the people leaving the gym feeling like they gave almost everything they had and are nearly wiped out as a result. These are the grown men sitting on Hammer strength back machines and only using one plate a side when most healthy men should be able to get more than that regardless of how new they are. You don’t jump to always blaming food intake if you truly haven’t learned the concept of pushing your limits in the gym.
In one year you gained over 50lbs and I see no change in your shoulders, traps or chest. How the fuck does that happen? I think you know how and I think I just made it clear again. Beyond that, why would someone gain 50lbs in one year? I think my genetics are above average and I never did that. Mind you, that was while getting into bodybuilding back when almost every other ad in a magazine was nothing but weight gainers. My first year I gained about 25lbs and most of it was muscle mass. You gained twice that much and common sense never kicked in? And you blame food for that?[/quote]
A-FUCKING-MEN. End of thread!
[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
To go about a bulk cleanly, where do you bump the calories and the nutritents each day - pre-post workout i.e .carbs/protein or in regular meals (breakfast, afternoon, dinner), fats or a little bit of everything gradually per day. I am usually really active so it can be challenging. I did try the one weekend cheat meal with pizza (was a looong time since I had pizza) earlier in the year a few times but I didn’t like the psychological dependency after awhile (but at the same time,it was nice to look forward to at the end of the week…it was way too easy for me to polish off a box though. The mass gain was good but I fear it was in the wrong spots and perhaps bad for my health?)Thanks Prof.
[/quote]
You think a pizza on the weekend is bad for your health? I am just now getting into specifically counting calories. The reason for that is I know I have a decent amount of size on me so going all out like I used to would be counterproductive. I didn’t count calories in the past. I ate until my weight went up. If I gained too quickly, I cut back a little. It was as simple as that. The majority of my focus was on lifting heavy and making sure my scale weight went up. I NEVER counted fat grams or carbs. I did attempt to take in about a gram of protein for every pound in body weight, but that was pretty much where my calculations ended. I am actually still focused on how negatively you seemed to view a cheat meal on a weekend. Unless you are DIETING, why are you making that large of a deal about it to the point that felt your were becoming “psychologically dependant” on it? Uh, most of us are dependant on food and if you are truly busting your ass in the gym, your body will need much more of it.
I hope I am being clear. You can have your diet mapped out by NASA space engineers and it won’t mean jack shit if you aren’t lifting heavy and staying focused in the gym. That means sweat actually leaves your body when you train and you train with enough intensity to outshine the majority of weekend warriors taking up space around you. Your specific macronutrient breakdown is much more significant when dieting. When gaining, in the past my main focus was TOTAL CALORIES with an emphasis on protein intake. I sure as hell didn’t stress out about a pizza on the weekends.
Thanks for all the info with experiences. I have been lifting for 2 years now and have seen a gain. Just not what I expected to see. I have friends who are on Illegal steroids and are out gaining me with lean muscle and I have fat coming along with mine. Plus they get to eat what they want too. It kind of makes me jealous. I am not bashin on Roids, hell I would be on them too if I did not have children. I would hear people in the Gym saying you need to eat a lot and find a good diet. I had someone tell me it did not matter what you were eating as long as you were eating. I was eating anything and everything in sight. Gaining muscle along with fat to cover it up. I would see peoples arms that are ripped and you could see the muscle clearly. As I mentioned with my friends on roids. My arms are getting bigger too but the muscle is covered with fat around it with not much definition so it is kind of straight on my arm. My friends look as if they are flexing all the time. They started working out after I did.
Like 6 months later and they eat fast food everyday. So I thought I could do the same. Now I am trying to find a diet with much healthier foods. Foods I have to spend an hour cooking every night. This was a good get big, stay lean diet. But the amount of food is unreal. Not to mention expensive. I spent $330.00 grocery shopping. Keep in mind this food will be feeding my family also. What I eat, they eat. Thank you again for all the info and advice. I think I will try to work my way up to this diet along with my intense training I already do now. This diet is consisting (average) of around 3300 calories, 300grams protein, 400 carbs, and 90 fat grams (mostly the good fats). I rarely use machines. Mostly free weights. I used machines the first year. BIG difference.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
intenseone wrote:
I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!!
After 25 years, where are you now in terms of progress?[/quote]
Right now I’m 43 5’6 1/2 and I usually maintain my weight between 217-222lbs. I combine my weight training with sprint intervals. I can maintain my weight by keeping my calorie intake around 2000-2300cal perday throughout the day. This why I had a hard time with the original post on this thread saying that this kid is taking in 1500 cal at one sitting. He has to understand that size putting on lean bodymass does not happen overnight…it takes time…alot of time!
[quote]intenseone wrote:
Professor X wrote:
intenseone wrote:
I’ve just got to know, whats the sense of eating that much at one sitting if you can’t assimilate what you take in and shit the rest out?? I fell for that the first 5 years I started training, then i slapped myself in the side of the head and realized it didn’t make sense and 25 years later it still doesn’t make sense!!
After 25 years, where are you now in terms of progress?
Right now I’m 43 5’6 1/2 and I usually maintain my weight between 217-222lbs. I combine my weight training with sprint intervals. I can maintain my weight by keeping my calorie intake around 2000-2300cal perday throughout the day. This why I had a hard time with the original post on this thread saying that this kid is taking in 1500 cal at one sitting. He has to understand that size putting on lean bodymass does not happen overnight…it takes time…alot of time!
[/quote]
I agree completely. Good progress. Someone that height is huge at that weight.
THANK YOU Lonnie FOR POSTING PICS!
Your points on eating have now been validated. You clearly have training and diet principles mastered.
What a joke. Your actually giving people advice??? Take a look in the mirror, go back and read some training and diet articles from this site.
If your “a hardgainer” then your training program or your intensity sucks.
Monopoly
The main sentence in your post that stodd out was this.
[quote]
Beyond that, why would someone gain 50lbs in one year[/quote]
This is all I’m saying. I came onto this site and the advice I was given as a new lifter who didn’t weigh that much was “Eat as much as humanly possible all the time”. I was lifting plenty(4 -5 day a week, 30 to 40 minutes a day) and my job keeps my active. So I did just that, ate everything I could.
I thought my numbers going up was simply my body adding muscle, and I didn’t really realize what had happened until I took the pictures all those months later(The mirror lies to FFB’s). I added around 15 pounds of muscle in that time, which I think is pretty decent in 11 months, but my FOOD INTAKE added much more weight than I needed.
Is it so wrong that I advise against HUGE food intakes for new lifters that don’t weigh 225 pounds yet?
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The main sentence in your post that stodd out was this.
Beyond that, why would someone gain 50lbs in one year
This is all I’m saying. I came onto this site and the advice I was given as a new lifter who didn’t weigh that much was “Eat as much as humanly possible all the time”. I was lifting plenty(4 -5 day a week, 30 to 40 minutes a day) and my job keeps my active. So I did just that, ate everything I could.
I thought my numbers going up was simply my body adding muscle, and I didn’t really realize what had happened until I took the pictures all those months later(The mirror lies to FFB’s). I added around 15 pounds of muscle in that time, which I think is pretty decent in 11 months, but my FOOD INTAKE added much more weight than I needed.
Is it so wrong that I advise against HUGE food intakes for new lifters that don’t weigh 225 pounds yet?[/quote]
It is when you are the one who was so confused that you gained 50 freaking pounds in one year. There are pro bodybuilders who don’t gain that much yet you blame the advice to eat for your own mistakes. You ate too much. It is as simple as that. Beyond that, as has been stated several times over, everyone doesn’t have the same genetics. That means what may be too much for you may not be for someone else, even if they weigh the same. With that in mind, you are the only one in this thread making such absolute statements about certain amounts of food. You gained as much fat as you did because of YOU. “Eat big” didn’t do that to you. I eat big and I would have noticed whether I was actually gaining enough muscle to justify the weight gain even as a rank beginner.
Maybe this site should sell common sense in a time released tablet. They can post it under Spike and call it “Don’t be a Dumbass”.
I am no expert and a beginner as well. Try this simple example.
BW(Body weight) X 15 plus 250 = Cals per day.
Do this for one to two weeks. Take a good portion of your daily cals in the morning. I stride to take 1/3 of my daily cals at breakfast. Your body will need them for it has been fasting all night while you were sleeping. After two weeks, weight your self again. Use the same forumla except you should have gained some weight. This is a simple way to get up to eating more. You may want to start out with
BW(Body weight) X 15 plus 500 = Cals per day.
If you take me for example.
232 X 15 plus 500 = 3980 cals a day
232 X 15 plus 500\ 1/3 = 1326 breakfast. I havent got there yet but this is the goal…
and see if you can eat it. Good luck and lift big. You are only gonna get out what you put in. I put in 5 days a week, 1-2 hours a day. Some may say it is overkill, others say not enough. You body will tell you if you are doing enough.
HTH - Stiddy
[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
THANK YOU Lonnie FOR POSTING PICS!
Your points on eating have now been validated. You clearly have training and diet principles mastered.
What a joke. Your actually giving people advice??? Take a look in the mirror, go back and read some training and diet articles from this site.
If your “a hardgainer” then your training program or your intensity sucks.
Monopoly[/quote]
The only advice I have given is that eating as much as possible all of the time will lead to fat gains… Which I think was validated by my pictures.