Eating Protein-Fat Meals is Lame

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]young n wrote:

thanks, but i dont quite understand as to why your taking in 5 fat + protein meals on a workout day, i mean i can understand if you were doing that on a non workout day, but i would still think that a person would need some crabs to help them grow even on a non trainig day, but the 5 fat + protein meals on a high energy system training day just aint making sense, i would think that on a high energy system training day that a person would need more carbs than on an off day to help maximize their workout capacity, and that at least a person would consume carbs peri workout

[/quote]

The only carb and protein meal I have is peri workout. I very rarely do high level energy system activities, but when I do I will have a carb protien meal afterwards. Just the way I my body works.

22

[quote]bilj wrote:

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
I recommend that you learn to tailor your macronutrient intake so that you can achieve your objectives and feel alert.[/quote]

Great advice!
The problem with this recommendation is that you are not giving enough specifics for the average person on this site, or anywhere for that matter. Most of us will never take what you said and do anything with it. We need spoon-feeding, motivation, irrifutable proof. If you can not give us specific macros and sample meals, we will never get this right. It’s too darn hard for those without experiance and we want results yesterday. What most need is a template that works for most people that can be tweaked. That is, unless they are a very special unique snowflake just like me. Er, wait, what?

-Eat the smallest amouunt of healthy carbs as it takes for you to feel better. 1 Apple?
-If you are taking HRX or similar, be aware that you will get very hungry later in the day. Make celery your new best friend.

I am sure other can give you helpful hints to get you where you want to be.

[/quote]

celery is like that loser you let tag along to play DD

23

[quote]bilj wrote:

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
I recommend that you learn to tailor your macronutrient intake so that you can achieve your objectives and feel alert.[/quote]

Great advice!
The problem with this recommendation is that you are not giving enough specifics for the average person on this site, or anywhere for that matter. Most of us will never take what you said and do anything with it. We need spoon-feeding, motivation, irrifutable proof. If you can not give us specific macros and sample meals, we will never get this right. It’s too darn hard for those without experiance and we want results yesterday. What most need is a template that works for most people that can be tweaked. That is, unless they are a very special unique snowflake just like me. Er, wait, what?[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re serious, but unfortunately this may also be why many people fail to ever make much progress. They want/expect to be spoon fed with all the right answers without ever going through the process of gaining any meningful experience.

Instead of actually thinking their questions through and coming up with answers on their own, they post online expecting all the answers from people who know very little about them.

Plus, as anyone who’s been around this stuff for a while can attest, there is very little irrifutable proof when it comes to training and nutrition. While newbies might read the results from the latest ‘study’ and apply it as gospel, more experienced trainees look at their bodies as their own personal labs and find what works best through trial and error.

24

^Dont know if ur referring to me or not dawg, but i can tell ya i’ve done plenty of trial n error and the only thing ive realized is that i need a fuk load more cardio then the average guy, even whnen on a bulk since all this trial and error just turned me from skinny-fat to fat-fat through the “just eat” principle. Now im tryin to eat the “right” way the majority of bodybuilders do which is meat and veggies with a tbsp of olive oil but I just feel hungrier after I’m done. For instance 10 min. ago I just ate 8 oz of chicken a cup of brocolli with a tbsp of omega oil, but I’m still hungry and the only way to saitiate that hunger is to drink a tall glass of milk or eat some potatoes, but according to everyone on here its bad to combine fats and carbs with protein, so what the hell do i do??

25

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
^Dont know if ur referring to me or not dawg, but i can tell ya i’ve done plenty of trial n error and the only thing ive realized is that i need a fuk load more cardio then the average guy, even whnen on a bulk since all this trial and error just turned me from skinny-fat to fat-fat through the “just eat” principle. Now im tryin to eat the “right” way the majority of bodybuilders do which is meat and veggies with a tbsp of olive oil but I just feel hungrier after I’m done. For instance 10 min. ago I just ate 8 oz of chicken a cup of brocolli with a tbsp of omega oil, but I’m still hungry and the only way to saitiate that hunger is to drink a tall glass of milk or eat some potatoes, but according to everyone on here its bad to combine fats and carbs with protein, so what the hell do i do??[/quote]
Nuts !

26

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
^Dont know if ur referring to me or not dawg, but i can tell ya i’ve done plenty of trial n error and the only thing ive realized is that i need a fuk load more cardio then the average guy, even whnen on a bulk since all this trial and error just turned me from skinny-fat to fat-fat through the “just eat” principle. Now im tryin to eat the “right” way the majority of bodybuilders do which is meat and veggies with a tbsp of olive oil but I just feel hungrier after I’m done. For instance 10 min. ago I just ate 8 oz of chicken a cup of brocolli with a tbsp of omega oil, but I’m still hungry and the only way to saitiate that hunger is to drink a tall glass of milk or eat some potatoes, but according to everyone on here its bad to combine fats and carbs with protein, so what the hell do i do??[/quote]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with eating carbohydrates and fats in the same meal. The human body is way too complex for the insulin spike created by carb ingestion to automatically store any recently eaten fats IN fat cells. Total calories is the only thing that matters. But obviously it is beneficial to have a steady supply of amino acids in your blood stream and it’s wise to minimize carbs later in the day because your energy demands are likely lower.

27

oh ok makes sense

28

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Amonero wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]protein-pro wrote:
Humans are meant to eat carbohydrates, dont know, yes the can, and some are better in using them then others… but that is not te discussion here!

If you eat lot of fats and protein, no carbs… you will feel full and satisfied and will not have a lack of energy. Everybody is different but it is possible to function without the carbs!!
[/quote]
I wish I actually cared enough about nutrition to have the patience to dig up all of the new studies showing how bad long term very low carb diets are for people who lift weights. [/quote]

I really wish you would!
[/quote]

I honestly don’t have the time. Mostly because I dont remember exactly where I found them or who published them so it would take a lot of googling.

The main thing was that being in ketosis should not a be long term solution for weight management.

Ketosis diets are relatively new/popular. Its going to take time for enough people to use them and the whole story to be told.

[/quote]

I did some seachin myself in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and the research was very inconclusive and poorly designed. Some studies stated that a low crab diet would cause mineral leeching from bone because of low potassium intake from fruit and vegetables. Nowhere have I read that broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, kale and other vegetables should be limited when eating low carbs.

This is of particular interest to me as I have been eating very low carb (less than 30 g a day) with occational carb refeeds every week, every other week, once week, twice a week…I’ve tried alot of different things.I have been doing this for almost seven years now, and whenever I start rotating carbs in I gain a whole lot of abdominal fat.

When dropping weight on a carb based diet I’ve had to go as low as 1500-2000 kcal a day at a BW of 95 kg to drop weight, whereas on a low carb diet I can go as high as 3000+ and still drop it and have energy to train.

I’ve tried periodically to have what would be considered ‘good carbs’ for breakfast, whole grain rye bread, whole grain asta, fruit, oatmeal and potatoes, but an hour after I’m comatose on the couch and useless.

29

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.

The problem is I’m carb sensitive. Is there something wrong with me if I feel better and full after eating a nice big p & c meal compared to a p & f meal. I know it goes against the general opinion that everyone should eat complex carbs post workout, but I can’t seem to survive the day just eating p&f meals.[/quote]

Like some others I think have said already, the meals you just posted don’t really have much fat. A meal I eat often for example is a chicken & veg stew with fatty thigh meat not breast and about 3 tbl spoons of extra fat, coconut oil & olive oil. I feel great after. I also noticed when I add alot of fat to my protein shakes I have more energy than when I don’t

30

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

[quote]protein-pro wrote:
I am on the fourth week of the anabolic diet and it really IS the way to go…[/quote]

The Anabolic Diet may work well for some, but there are other ways to get lean and muscular.

To the OP, ketogenic diets are not magic, you still need to consume fewer calories than you burn. I recommend that you learn to tailor your macronutrient intake so that you can achieve your objectives and feel alert.[/quote]

THIS

Humans are meant to eat carbohydrates. There is tons of NEW literature about the negative aspects of ketogenic and super low carb diets.

Everything should be eaten sensibly and in moderation. [/quote]

BONEZ I’m glad some people are seeing the light!

31

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

[quote]protein-pro wrote:
I am on the fourth week of the anabolic diet and it really IS the way to go…[/quote]

The Anabolic Diet may work well for some, but there are other ways to get lean and muscular.

To the OP, ketogenic diets are not magic, you still need to consume fewer calories than you burn. I recommend that you learn to tailor your macronutrient intake so that you can achieve your objectives and feel alert.[/quote]

THIS

Humans are meant to eat carbohydrates. There is tons of NEW literature about the negative aspects of ketogenic and super low carb diets.

Everything should be eaten sensibly and in moderation. [/quote]

Do you remember if any of the research mention what specific type of carbs, grains, fruits, root veggies? I’ve been searching nutrition like crazy online and keep finding biased, inconsistent, & contradictory info.

32

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.

The problem is I’m carb sensitive. Is there something wrong with me if I feel better and full after eating a nice big p & c meal compared to a p & f meal. I know it goes against the general opinion that everyone should eat complex carbs post workout, but I can’t seem to survive the day just eating p&f meals.[/quote]

If you’re feeling energetic and are having good work outs how are you carb sensitive?[/quote]

Great conversation so far. But what about the ultimate question above!! He said that he feels great on Carbs!!! I think you need to take another look at your diet and see if you really are carb sensitive or you think you are carb sensitive because you just flat out have a garbage diet and blame it on the carbs?!

33

[quote]Kai9ne wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

[quote]protein-pro wrote:
I am on the fourth week of the anabolic diet and it really IS the way to go…[/quote]

The Anabolic Diet may work well for some, but there are other ways to get lean and muscular.

To the OP, ketogenic diets are not magic, you still need to consume fewer calories than you burn. I recommend that you learn to tailor your macronutrient intake so that you can achieve your objectives and feel alert.[/quote]

THIS

Humans are meant to eat carbohydrates. There is tons of NEW literature about the negative aspects of ketogenic and super low carb diets.

Everything should be eaten sensibly and in moderation. [/quote]

Do you remember if any of the research mention what specific type of carbs, grains, fruits, root veggies? I’ve been searching nutrition like crazy online and keep finding biased, inconsistent, & contradictory info.
[/quote]

It wasn’t about the lack of carbs causing deficiencies. But rather the burning of ketones for energy that raised concern.

34

to the OP:

Then eat carbs! Fill your diet with complex carbs, protein, healthy fats, and veggies… perhaps limit the fruits… you can still make the progress you want eating carbs! Just track the macro’s/cals and dont eat the sugary stuff. Whole wheat pasta is a great thing.

Try carb cycling too where you eat fewer carbs on non-W/O days

Bottom line is -do what works for you!

35

[quote]ATCJM wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.

The problem is I’m carb sensitive. Is there something wrong with me if I feel better and full after eating a nice big p & c meal compared to a p & f meal. I know it goes against the general opinion that everyone should eat complex carbs post workout, but I can’t seem to survive the day just eating p&f meals.[/quote]

If you’re feeling energetic and are having good work outs how are you carb sensitive?[/quote]

Great conversation so far. But what about the ultimate question above!! He said that he feels great on Carbs!!! I think you need to take another look at your diet and see if you really are carb sensitive or you think you are carb sensitive because you just flat out have a garbage diet and blame it on the carbs?!
[/quote]

no I dont got a garbage diet if by that u mean fast food, which i only eat once or twice a month. I dont know if i used to right term or not but i call myself carb sensitive because even though i have great energy levels from eating em i seem to put wayy too much fat, like everytime i add weight to all my exercises for more reps my weight goes up (which is a good thing obviously) but i gain like 2-3 lbs with .5-1 lb being muscle probly.

My uncle and dad have the same problem, my younger bro doesn’t got that problem though he eats the exact same foods i do but he’s alot leaner then me and relatively stronger, even though im more absolutely stronger then him. So yeah thats the problem.

I’ve tried eating fruits for carbs in the past but my energy levels aren’t very good from just eating fruit as carbs and limiting complex carbs, especially when i just eat fruit and protein pre-workout on leg day, i’m pretty much collapsing halfway through the workout.

Anyways i’ll try some of the ideas, i was thinkin of eating carbs for breakfast, lunch (if its a hard day e.g leg/deadlift), pre and post workout with p & f meals as snacks (ie when i dont have cravings) throughout the day, maybe that might work. Or ill try the anabolic diet, whatever works.

36

[quote]
no I dont got a garbage diet if by that u mean fast food, which i only eat once or twice a month. I dont know if i used to right term or not but i call myself carb sensitive because even though i have great energy levels from eating em i seem to put wayy too much fat, like everytime i add weight to all my exercises for more reps my weight goes up (which is a good thing obviously) but i gain like 2-3 lbs with .5-1 lb being muscle probly.

My uncle and dad have the same problem, my younger bro doesn’t got that problem though he eats the exact same foods i do but he’s alot leaner then me and relatively stronger, even though im more absolutely stronger then him. So yeah thats the problem.

I’ve tried eating fruits for carbs in the past but my energy levels aren’t very good from just eating fruit as carbs and limiting complex carbs, especially when i just eat fruit and protein pre-workout on leg day, i’m pretty much collapsing halfway through the workout.

Anyways i’ll try some of the ideas, i was thinkin of eating carbs for breakfast, lunch (if its a hard day e.g leg/deadlift), pre and post workout with p & f meals as snacks (ie when i dont have cravings) throughout the day, maybe that might work. Or ill try the anabolic diet, whatever works.[/quote]

So, pre-workout use simple carbs, Surge, other supplements, etc. whatever you need to get through the workout. All other meals, do lean meat, veggies, and fruit along with some healthy fats. Late afternoon on, cut out the fruit.

37

What are the negative aspects to a Low Carb Diet?
Well, after a while of having very little carbohydrates available for exercise or daily activities the body begins producing ‘ketones’. These ketones are the leftovers from fats broken down in the body.

With enough production of ketones the body starts to ‘store’ fat (a process called ketosis). In other words, that wonderful chemical reaction that gave you that great feeling of, “Oh wow, look how much weight I lost!” turns into, “Why am I gaining weight?!”.

If you think that the negatives to a low carb diet are over you should keep reading.

By exercising and starving your body from carbohydrates you can change the body’s hormone which regulates metabolism. This thyroid hormone is known as ‘T3’. T3 is a very powerful hormone for weight loss. Low carb diets usually result in a reduction in T3.

What happens when the Low Carb Diet ends?
When a reduction of any major nutrient occurs in the body, the body goes into a ‘sparing’ effect. This sparing effect is not a welcomed side effect of a low carbohydrate diet. This is because Low Carb Diets cause increased carbohydrate or insulin sensitivity. The higher the insulin sensitivity, the greater the chance that fat will be stored in the body.

Low Carb Diet Conclusion
Low carbohydrate diets are very effective in their early stages because of several reasons: satiety from fat and protein intake, a reduction in water weight and a chemical reaction to increase fat metabolism. However, with the increased insulin sensitivity and permanent reduction of the T3 hormone eventual weight gain is inevitable. It is an obvious decision to not try any low carb diet.

38

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.
[/quote]

good afternoon,

whole bunch of folks jumped on the keto part of this… ~shrugs~… not going to quote old or new studies at you, don’t really care… DO care enough to tell you My experience…

been a big Guy My whole life… got too big and went on the atkins diet 1 Apr 2003 @ 315 anf 5’9" … was too embarrassed to do body fat testing…

when football season {{I coach}} started on 1 Aug 2003, I was benching sixty pounds more, squatting 125 or so more, and deadlift went up dramatically… don’t remember how much any longer… and I had lost sixty pounds…

did I feel sleepy and cranky for a bit of time?.. yup, bout two weeks… the induction phase, less than 20 grams of carbs a day… did I get over it?.. yup… more energy, more strength, lower heart rate, lower cholesterol, clearer skin, you name it, it got better…

did I keep the weight off?.. it’s been six and a half years, I’ve gained back ten pounds on a bad day… when it gets to ten, I do induction and it goes away…

did I keep the strength?.. I got lazy and also moved several times… so that is a yes and no answer… right now today stronger than I was then, still on Atkins maintenance, and getting stronger every workout…

grin… fire away, feel free to tell Me low carb is bad or stupid or whatever… I have no damage after nearly seven years, I feel better, I’m at least as strong, I’m sixty pounds lighter, and I have more energy with lower cholesterol and body fat…

it worked for Me…

have a great day…
do I keep carbs low?.. yup but not insanely so… average is prolly 70 grams a day, give or take, with a cheerful meal of spaghetti or pizza when I want it…

39

[quote]SquattMax wrote:

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.
[/quote]

good afternoon,

whole bunch of folks jumped on the keto part of this… ~shrugs~… not going to quote old or new studies at you, don’t really care… DO care enough to tell you My experience…

been a big Guy My whole life… got too big and went on the atkins diet 1 Apr 2003 @ 315 anf 5’9" … was too embarrassed to do body fat testing…

when football season {{I coach}} started on 1 Aug 2003, I was benching sixty pounds more, squatting 125 or so more, and deadlift went up dramatically… don’t remember how much any longer… and I had lost sixty pounds…

did I feel sleepy and cranky for a bit of time?.. yup, bout two weeks… the induction phase, less than 20 grams of carbs a day… did I get over it?.. yup… more energy, more strength, lower heart rate, lower cholesterol, clearer skin, you name it, it got better…

did I keep the weight off?.. it’s been six and a half years, I’ve gained back ten pounds on a bad day… when it gets to ten, I do induction and it goes away…

did I keep the strength?.. I got lazy and also moved several times… so that is a yes and no answer… right now today stronger than I was then, still on Atkins maintenance, and getting stronger every workout…

grin… fire away, feel free to tell Me low carb is bad or stupid or whatever… I have no damage after nearly seven years, I feel better, I’m at least as strong, I’m sixty pounds lighter, and I have more energy with lower cholesterol and body fat…

it worked for Me…

have a great day…
do I keep carbs low?.. yup but not insanely so… average is prolly 70 grams a day, give or take, with a cheerful meal of spaghetti or pizza when I want it…

[/quote]

Don’t confuse what I was saying. I did not say that being obese is healthier than a keto-diet.

40

[quote]SquattMax wrote:

[quote]WWEAttitude wrote:
Hopefully no one takes this wrong way, but seriously I can’t stand eating chicken breasts and veggies or steak and veggies. Not only do I get lethargic and dizzy all the time eating that, I can’t seem to feel full on that crap. I find that when eat heaping bowls of whole wheat pasta with chicken and lean beef burgers I feel much more better and have more energy.
[/quote]

good afternoon,

whole bunch of folks jumped on the keto part of this… ~shrugs~… not going to quote old or new studies at you, don’t really care… DO care enough to tell you My experience…

been a big Guy My whole life… got too big and went on the atkins diet 1 Apr 2003 @ 315 anf 5’9" … was too embarrassed to do body fat testing…

when football season {{I coach}} started on 1 Aug 2003, I was benching sixty pounds more, squatting 125 or so more, and deadlift went up dramatically… don’t remember how much any longer… and I had lost sixty pounds…

did I feel sleepy and cranky for a bit of time?.. yup, bout two weeks… the induction phase, less than 20 grams of carbs a day… did I get over it?.. yup… more energy, more strength, lower heart rate, lower cholesterol, clearer skin, you name it, it got better…

did I keep the weight off?.. it’s been six and a half years, I’ve gained back ten pounds on a bad day… when it gets to ten, I do induction and it goes away…

did I keep the strength?.. I got lazy and also moved several times… so that is a yes and no answer… right now today stronger than I was then, still on Atkins maintenance, and getting stronger every workout…

grin… fire away, feel free to tell Me low carb is bad or stupid or whatever… I have no damage after nearly seven years, I feel better, I’m at least as strong, I’m sixty pounds lighter, and I have more energy with lower cholesterol and body fat…

it worked for Me…

have a great day…
do I keep carbs low?.. yup but not insanely so… average is prolly 70 grams a day, give or take, with a cheerful meal of spaghetti or pizza when I want it…

[/quote]

I got a few questions for you. 1)after you lost the weight how did you begin reintroducing carbs back into ur diet, did u do this by eating more fruits or things like potatoes, and are you still trying to lose weight?? 2) If your keeping carbs to 70 grams a day or so, do you mainly eat them during breakfast, or before/after workout?? 3) lastly and most importantly, what kind of cardio did you do during the period you were losing weight and if your on maintenance, what kind do you do now??