T Nation

Eating Clean Above Maintenance


… so it showed a reduction in calories regardless of their source = a loss of weight not necessarily fat, right?


No. Do you want me to do the math for you, or do you want to try itt yourself? 200 pounds, 15% body fat. Cut 7 pounds of muscle and 3 pounds of fat. What is the new percentage?


He lost some fat.


Yup my bad, I responded too quickly by gut without doing the math first. It’d be a little over 14% in your example.

When you have the time to, I’d like to hear your thoughts about my other post. Thank you for the insights btw


Of course, if you lose weight some of it is likely going to be fat. That doesn’t surprise me. I think, generally, anytime you consume less than maintenance you’re likely to lose some fat.

I’m not really sure what the disconnect is here…


You and I are in general agreement.


I gave my definition in an earlier post. In addition to low linoleic and fructose, also avoiding foods that are allergenic to you in particular or to which you are sensitive to-which therefore raise cortisol and can raise insulin resistance. These will be different for different people. Fructose, Linoleic and allergenic foods will raise cortisol, raise insulin, lower test, and lower GH and therefore will result in insulin resistance in excess of raw carb and calorie count. Most people will get a better blood sugar profile from pasta than white rice, but wrongly assume that the low GI carb requires less insulin. It actually stimulates MORE insulin in most people which is why the GI is lower, and it produces a long, slow insulin release for up to 8-12 hours which ends up requiring more total insulin exposure. The proteins that lower the GI of pasta “work” to lower GI because they contain substances that are commonly inflammatory. As a result, you end up with slow absorption, but also stress hormone release that requires more insulin-up to 50% more.

Some people require a lot more insulin when they eat carbs with saturated fat in the same meal. Some also oversecrete for fast carbs and end up with rebound hypoglycemia. Point is, good blood sugar does not equate to low insulin needs. High insulin will result in more fat versus muscle expecially over time.


So in other words there is no escaping the fat gain right? Carbs are virtually a necessity for gaining muscle at the fastest rate possibile, and since they are inherently insulinogenic, they can’t help but make you fatter provided you are in a calorie surplus.

This reminds me of some of CT’s articles about fat loss in which he states the importance of keeping the body acidic load as low as possible to optimize the process. Would you say that the same principles can be applied when trying to gain weight in order to minimize fat gain?

How would one go about determining if they have any issues digesting a specific food? Is blood work required? As my carb selection is pretty limited (virtually only white rice. As I said, sometimes I’ll have some bread but it still amounts to a low amount of carbs. Outside of white rice and bread I think that peri workout cyclic dextrin is my only other source of starchy carbs. That and fruit, although I don’t eat a whole lot of outside bananas), is there anything you think I should be paying attention to, particularly?


Regarding the last point: Do you sleep well? Do you have sinusitis? Do you have GI or joint inflammation?

Missing? I would add probiotic foods like naturally brined/fermented veggies. Healthy gut flora can negate the inflammatory effects of many more inflammatory foods.

High fat macro dieters need more insulin per gram of carbs consumed though not necessariliy in proportion. An inflammatory diet can require more insulin than a higher carb/calorie diet that is less inflammatory, especially if sleep quality improves.

I don’t believe that consuming a low acid load improves pH. Consuming bicarbonate has only been shown to extend kidney function in people who are in end stage kidney failure and only by a matter of weeks. Consuming basic foods as well as acid neutralizers like carbonates often tends to lower blood pH (more acidic) and consuming more acidic foods like Apple Cider Vinegar tends to make the blood less acidic in the long run by improving the bloods natural buffering systems. Blood buffers and acid neutralizers raise the incidence of acid reflux. I think that someone with mild kidney issues should absolutely avoid additional acid neutralizing substances.


If you are new to lifting that will work. It is called body recomposition, assuming that you are eating 500 above the caloric maintenance that you had before you started working out.


What would most people class as a very small deficit would you say? Would 250 be considered small enough?


yep thats fine, 150 even


To anyone looking into the issue of how big a surplus for mass gain, I strongly suggest the read of the article, “Muscle Gain Math,” from Lyle Mcdonald (look that up).

It’s eye opening, in sense that according to his calculations, the surplus needed to achieve maximum muscle gain rate appears to be significantly smaller than what most people would believe.


Is clean eating a myth?