Early Gear Use to Reach Goals

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.[/quote]

Im not giving any advice here

What if someone wants to look goodfor girls during college and dont mind losing his gains when he is all set with his professional life?
[/quote]

What are you trying to get out of this thread? Because we’ve had a few people go into why it’s a bad idea and you’re coming up with what if scenarios to say why those reasons don’t apply to them. Well that’s fine, but most people on this site are going to try to give advice based on a long term lifestyle, so if they’re logging on to this site, expect people to tell them it’s a bad idea.

I mean, I can’t imagine many scenarios in which someone doesn’t have the mental fortitude to put forth the required effort into diet, training, rest and all of the learning and trial and error that goes with it, but magically acquires that “go get it” attitude that it takes to learn about the responsible use of steroids, what cycles to run, PCT, etc.

But at the end of the day, people are going to do whatever they want, but some weak justification about why it’s the right path to take is just that, a weak justification. [/quote]

You sound very defensive even though I didnt give my opinion yet and just asked questions lol

22

here is some real talk though.

i started at 20 y/o with the intention of only doing one cycle… (lol)… now, at 23, i’ve been on for almost a year straight, and i have no intention of ever coming off. now ive almost come to the point where i sit on my chair and just keep pinning vial after vial because im bored…

yeah… it’s like that… for me at least

do not try to kid yourself… this shit may not be physically/mentally addicting per se… but when it comes time to come off and hang it up, you WILL start to ask yourself, “why should i?”

and for the 40 y/o and up crew… shit… you guys might as well just start juicing lmao… don’t hit it too hard because your bodies don’t have the same capacity to recover (lipids/liver/etc) that it did when u were younger.

23

zraw, I think I understand your question a bit more than others here. While I may not personally approve of what they are doing I don’t think there is a problem with it. Is this correct?

Person 1
Goal: Get from A to B
Uses steroids to get there quickly

Person 2
Goal: Get from A to C
Uses steroids to get from A to B, then B to C

Are you basically asking about Person 1 and not Person 2? I’ve heard a few times that steroids will only help you get you to the next level, whatever that may be.

24

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.

25

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[
is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.
[/quote]

Why do you have to pick on ID when he’s not even here to defend himself?

26

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.[/quote]

this is the damn truth… my friends seem to think that the steroids do the training, measure the food, abstain from the partying, do the cardio, stick to the strict diet etc…

for me… all i gotta do is stick this needle in my ass

27

If I won 1million dollar at the loto it means I wont have "earned"it… this doesnt mean I wouldnt appreciate what I get

Why would it be different when it pertains to the body?

Anyone going off will.lose gains wether the training/nutrition is crap or top notch… ull just make.more gains with the perfect trainin/nutritionn… wether you use or not

28

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.[/quote]

this is the damn truth… my friends seem to think that the steroids do the training, measure the food, abstain from the partying, do the cardio, stick to the strict diet etc…

for me… all i gotta do is stick this needle in my ass[/quote]

^^some people just don’t know.

I have friends who use, train hard and have a solid… They make great gains and look phenomenal.

I also have friends who use, train haphazardly, eat a sloppy diet and look worse than me.

29

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.[/quote]

this is the damn truth… my friends seem to think that the steroids do the training, measure the food, abstain from the partying, do the cardio, stick to the strict diet etc…

for me… all i gotta do is stick this needle in my ass[/quote]

^^some people just don’t know.

I have friends who use, train hard and have a solid… They make great gains and look phenomenal.

I also have friends who use, train haphazardly, eat a sloppy diet and look worse than me.[/quote]

yep… the guy who got me started on aas was fat as fuck (still is) and totally undisciplined… u couldnt even tell that he lifted much less did steroids

30

If it makes you happy, do it… I don’t think it really matters in the end. Being a juice monkey doesn’t get you far in life.

31

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
If it makes you happy, do it… I don’t think it really matters in the end. Being a juice monkey doesn’t get you far in life.[/quote]

Got it.

So, what exactly is a juice monkey?

I’m guessing it’s anyone who’s bigger than you, lol.

32

[quote]zraw wrote:
Its not “cheating” as this doesnt affect anyone else
Soooo
[/quote]

But it does affect many natties emotionally and it involves some form of “cheating”.

One motivation for doing BBing is to look “good” and when it comes to aesthetics you kinda “compete” with others. Since other people (the “judges” in the “competition”) don’t know the difference between the assisted and the natties (all they see is the end product), the natties (feel like they) lose in an unfair game*.

While I personally don’t really care all that much, I do feel “cheated” in the above sense once in a while.

*I hope no one tries to argue that it isn’t in fact an unfair game.

33

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.[/quote]

Read zraw’s posts, he’s stated someone who doesn’t want to work as hard. Also, read the thread this question is based off of, and tell me that guy knows how to work hard.

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.[/quote]

Im not giving any advice here

What if someone wants to look goodfor girls during college and dont mind losing his gains when he is all set with his professional life?
[/quote]

What are you trying to get out of this thread? Because we’ve had a few people go into why it’s a bad idea and you’re coming up with what if scenarios to say why those reasons don’t apply to them. Well that’s fine, but most people on this site are going to try to give advice based on a long term lifestyle, so if they’re logging on to this site, expect people to tell them it’s a bad idea.

I mean, I can’t imagine many scenarios in which someone doesn’t have the mental fortitude to put forth the required effort into diet, training, rest and all of the learning and trial and error that goes with it, but magically acquires that “go get it” attitude that it takes to learn about the responsible use of steroids, what cycles to run, PCT, etc.

But at the end of the day, people are going to do whatever they want, but some weak justification about why it’s the right path to take is just that, a weak justification. [/quote]

You sound very defensive even though I didnt give my opinion yet and just asked questions lol
[/quote]

Your first post certainly indicated where you stand on the issue, but by all mans, please provide your opinion. :slight_smile:

And I’m just writing on something I feel pretty strongly about. I don’t mean for my comments to be directed at you specifically, just the issue we’re discussing.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[
is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.
[/quote]

Why do you have to pick on ID when he’s not even here to defend himself?
[/quote]

ID was a pigmy?

34

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

But it does affect many natties emotionally and it involves some form of “cheating”.

One motivation for doing BBing is to look “good” and when it comes to aesthetics you kinda “compete” with others. Since other people (the “judges” in the “competition”) don’t know the difference between the assisted and the natties (all they see is the end product), the natties (feel like they) lose in an unfair game*.

While I personally don’t really care all that much, I do feel “cheated” in the above sense once in a while.
[/quote]

I think this says more about you than those who use steroids.

35

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO. [/quote]

Wanting to use doesn’t mean someone “doesn’t want to put in the work” though. They just have access to a tool that will help them get to their goal faster.

They still have to lift and eat. They’ll have to put in the work but it will just take less time.[/quote]

this is the damn truth… my friends seem to think that the steroids do the training, measure the food, abstain from the partying, do the cardio, stick to the strict diet etc…

for me… all i gotta do is stick this needle in my ass[/quote]

You guys are getting it twisted, yo.

Walk - you’re obviously still doing what it takes to look great, I’m certainly not chalking up your gains to steroids. Steroids alone wouldn’t make you look that good, so props for that.

But a guy who trains haphazardly, has a shit diet, etc., is going to progress more if he’s on steroids than if he’s not on steroids. I’m not talking about this individual that is “on” vs this other individual that is “off”, I’m talking about 1 guy, whether he’s using or not, will affect his progress regardless of how good or half assed his training is.

So I’m not saying it’s the steroids that do all the work.

To be honest, I’ve given up comparing myself to others, there are just too many variables to assess my progress against when comparing to others. So I don’t give a shit what anyone does. But to think telling some newb who doesn’t know shit about proper training and nutrition it’s a good idea to hop on a few cycles is a good idea is retarded, IMO.

36

So does the guy from the hood who could have been better than Micheal Jordan does nothing but play basketball all day and eat Mc Donald’s but still looks better than 99% of the people here not “put in the work” or earn his body?

37

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
But a guy who trains haphazardly, has a shit diet, etc., is going to progress more if he’s on steroids than if he’s not on steroids. I’m not talking about this individual that is “on” vs this other individual that is “off”, I’m talking about 1 guy, whether he’s using or not, will affect his progress regardless of how good or half assed his training is.

So I’m not saying it’s the steroids that do all the work.
[/quote]

^^i agree with this. I guess we strayed a little from the OP’s scenario.

If the guy is going to train haphazard, eat crap, party and all that then I don’t think he will make good progress even with AAS.

38

[quote]zraw wrote:
What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really “earn” your body? Is that.the prpblem?[/quote]

From the OP, just so we’re all on the same page.

39

If a guy doesnt want to put in the work and time he’d need to in order to reach is goal but has access to a tool that could help him (make him) achieve his goal what is wrong with doing just that?

(This isnt me saying that said guy should)

40

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:
What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really “earn” your body? Is that.the prpblem?[/quote]

From the OP, just so we’re all on the same page. [/quote]

I believe that anybody needs about 2 years in order to learn the basics on nutrition,training and steroids. So, the first two years of his training he should just experiment with training methods and nutrition, while learning as much as he can on steroids. Then, whenever he feels he is ready, he can jump on the juice, just so his money does not go down the toilet.

But, if someone wants to start steroids since day one in the gym, it is none of my business, but I sure as hell won’t help him, because if anything goes wrong, he is going to blame me. Besides that, he is going to always going to ask me anything that comes to mind about this or that, since he has done no reserch on his own.