T Nation

Early Gear Use to Reach Goals


#1

What is the problem here?

Why is it a problem for anyone if someone uses gear to reach a goal that could be attainable with 2-3yrs of hard work but doesnt want to wait that long and/or work as hard

If someone is 150lbs and decides to run a cycle 3months after starting training to get to a lean 175lbs faster why should ppl tell.him.he's an idiot?

Is it cause it takes away from the "hard work" other guys have put in to make those gains?

Its not "cheating" as this doesnt affect anyone else
Soooo

Why am.I seeing so many newbs get trashed when they sah they will run a cycle (and they arent trashed because of the health aspect but more so with the "you could reach that natty" "learn to train" "learn to eat")

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really "earn" your body? Is that.the prpblem?


#2

Just to make this clear this isnt a thread to encourage using gear when you are a begginer as much as one to see what everyone’s perception is


#3

are you natty bro?


#4

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding…


#5

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.


#6

I think the problem is simply that most of them are beginners who do don’t know how to properly train, eat, and be consistent. Throwing gear into the mix at that stage sounds suboptimal at best. Now if these beginners get proper guidance in all aspects of BBing from someone more experienced and have the right attitude, then I don’t see a problem.


#7

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

What if someone is 40yrs old and dont want to put much time in bbing and want to eat freely?


#8

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.[/quote]

Im not giving any advice here

What if someone wants to look goodfor girls during college and dont mind losing his gains when he is all set with his professional life?


#9

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.[/quote]

Im not giving any advice here

What if someone wants to look goodfor girls during college and dont mind losing his gains when he is all set with his professional life?
[/quote]

Or so they can audition for the jersey shore? lol

It’s just an example of all that’s going wrong with the generation. Yes, you should earn your body. Not because it wrongs me if you donâ??t, because it wrongs yourself.

If you don’t work hard and earn things, you don’t learn to appreciate and respect them. Take a newly driving teen and hand them a free Ferrari. At best they end up destroying the car because they don’t maintain it. But probably more likely they stomp on the gas until they either blow the motor or wreck the car.

Who do you think enjoys a Ferrari more, a rich teenage brat that gets handed keys for their 16th birthday, or the middle aged guy who worked his way up from nothing and finally got his dream car after years of saving?

If you are using as a method of avoiding hard work, yes, there is a problem. If you are using as a method of increasing your ability to work and push past limits, I don’t really see the problem.

In the name of bodybuilding, whatever, but I think it’s a huge life mistake.


#10

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

This, but I’ll also add that if a newb runs a few cycles to hit some goals that would have been attainable naturally, they haven’t built the necessary tools to be successful at this on a long term basis and those gains won’t be sustainable once they’re off cycle.

It’s bad advice, man.[/quote]

Im not giving any advice here

What if someone wants to look goodfor girls during college and dont mind losing his gains when he is all set with his professional life?
[/quote]

What are you trying to get out of this thread? Because we’ve had a few people go into why it’s a bad idea and you’re coming up with what if scenarios to say why those reasons don’t apply to them. Well that’s fine, but most people on this site are going to try to give advice based on a long term lifestyle, so if they’re logging on to this site, expect people to tell them it’s a bad idea.

I mean, I can’t imagine many scenarios in which someone doesn’t have the mental fortitude to put forth the required effort into diet, training, rest and all of the learning and trial and error that goes with it, but magically acquires that “go get it” attitude that it takes to learn about the responsible use of steroids, what cycles to run, PCT, etc.

But at the end of the day, people are going to do whatever they want, but some weak justification about why it’s the right path to take is just that, a weak justification.


#11

Alright, I just realized what thread you’re referring to.

The guy in that thread has written that he’s already ruined his genetic potential because he’s run 3 cycles. He doesn’t seem to have an honest clue about how to diet and train hard and despite his multiple cycles, he still looks like a skinny guy that occasionally does some pushups. He’s still starting threads that show he has not reached his goals, is not happy with his progress and is looking for the newest training/diet/steroid cycle.

Considering this is a bodybuilding site, do YOU think he took the correct path?


#12

I like this thread topic. I’m 46 years old and about 7 months into the whole bodybuilding thing. Now that I am pretty much finished with my newb gains, I look at myself in the mirror and realize that it is seriously going to take years of hard work to get the type of body that I’m aiming for. But that is part of the beauty of it for me: What muscle I build will have come from my own hard work, protein and hormones.

Honestly, if I had access to some gear I don’t think I would take it. Ask me again when I’m in my 60’s and I would probably say yes. But, I want to build a real foundation first.

One question, would you really lose what you gained if you gained it all on gear? I ask only because that is what many people outside of the bodybuilding work believe. Is it really true?


#13

I think I see where zraw is coming from and I tend to agree with him. Steroids are a tool, just like a hammer, a screw driver, or a saw. When we attach moral judgements to those tools (steroids are bad, guns are bad) then we extend those judgements to those who use those tools.

No one tells me I’m cheating myself when I take an Advil to clear up a headache, no one tells the cancer patient that they didn’t earn their remission because they used chemo.

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.


#14

I think people trash newbs who want to use because either A. They are haters or jealous. or B. they don’t want AAS use, which if done correctly and responsibly is safe and effective, getting a bad name by a newb who is all whacked off.

That’s my thoughts on it.

You do you and Ill do my own thing. I don’t care if some random online personality wants to use.

EDIT: if a newb is planning on running some ridiculous cycle then he should be called an idiot but if it’s a well put together cycle then what business is it of mine?


#15

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I think I see where zraw is coming from and I tend to agree with him. Steroids are a tool, just like a hammer, a screw driver, or a saw. When we attach moral judgements to those tools (steroids are bad, guns are bad) then we extend those judgements to those who use those tools.

No one tells me I’m cheating myself when I take an Advil to clear up a headache, no one tells the cancer patient that they didn’t earn their remission because they used chemo.

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

Good post, well said.


#16

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I think I see where zraw is coming from and I tend to agree with him. Steroids are a tool, just like a hammer, a screw driver, or a saw. When we attach moral judgements to those tools (steroids are bad, guns are bad) then we extend those judgements to those who use those tools.

No one tells me I’m cheating myself when I take an Advil to clear up a headache, no one tells the cancer patient that they didn’t earn their remission because they used chemo.

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

I think this is what it boils down to more. I understand building a foundation and basis before starting to use, but I don’t give a shit if somebody uses PED’s and get’s a better physique than me in a shorter amount of time. At the end of the day, it really isn’t affecting me or my life. Some people on this site get too worked up for what others are doing that have no effect on their day to day AT ALL.


#17

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I think I see where zraw is coming from and I tend to agree with him. Steroids are a tool, just like a hammer, a screw driver, or a saw. When we attach moral judgements to those tools (steroids are bad, guns are bad) then we extend those judgements to those who use those tools.

No one tells me I’m cheating myself when I take an Advil to clear up a headache, no one tells the cancer patient that they didn’t earn their remission because they used chemo.

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

Good post, well said.[/quote]

Indeed. I’ve always said that if there wasn’t such a stigma about these products, we’d see a hell of a lot more people making use of them.

S


#18

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

However, like a power saw, in the wrong hands (uneducated, ignorant of proper training and nutrition principals) steroids can do more damage than good.[/quote]

This is exactly (one of) my point(s). A newb using steroids because he doesn’t want to put in the work is like a Pigmy who has never even seen a power tool using a chain saw.

It’s just a bad idea, IMO.


#19

lol… u guys are great


#20

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants …[/quote]

^ because theyre children who need to have instant gratification for everything, not just bodybuilding… [/quote]

What if someone is 40yrs old and dont want to put much time in bbing and want to eat freely?[/quote]
This is totally fine in my book. The place where I would call someone an idiot is if it’s an 18 year old who starts using from the word go. I believe at such a young age the endocrine system is still in flux and it’s not worth fucking with imo. Also I have heard from powerlifters that the longer you can put it off the better.

I realize this may be meaningless to you or any other bodybuilder, but from a strength standpoint, that’s just what I’ve been told. The stronger you can get without them, the stronger you’ll get when you finally flip the card and your peak will be higher than if you started early and fizzled out.