T Nation

earliest age for mag 10???

This was brought up in the MAG10 support group thread but I think it is of interest to a lot of posters. Having read similar threads on the “right” age for AAS I am particularly interested in the claim that they can prevent “vertical growth”. I remember a post by Bill roberts that said that only aromatizable roids will do that.
I would really appreciate an answer. Thanks

There’s no evidence whatsoever that androgens
speed closing of epiphyseal plates, a process that ends bone growth. Estrogens however do this.

The reason, or the main reason, men grow
taller than women is lower estrogen levels
(higher androgen levels regardless.)

Thanks, that was fast!!!

Not to disagree with what Bill Roberts said, but the bottle says for use by those over 18 years of age. I have to assume it says that for a good reason other than keeping the shysters off of Biotest’s back.

By the way, I am turning 21 in a month, so no problem there AvoidsRoids

The reason is that while androgen use in
adult males is well-understood, use in adolescents really is not, and lacking informtion it’s impossible to rule out that there could be adverse health effects (perhaps not immediately apparent but down the road) that aren’t really known about.

And besides this, anyone under the age of 18
doesn’t need MAG-10 for great training. If anything, while of course not interfering with training, it would interfere with the learning process, rewarding even bad training with good results. (Older lifters might not be rewarded well with bad training and MAG-10, but I wouldn’t be surprised if adolescents would.)

That’s not the reason – the first reason given is – but it would also be a good one.

Greek, there have been several really good threads about this topic over on the steroid board. You should check them out, especially the one a few months ago from 3xkrazy. (I think that’s how he spells it…) But as a crib note, here are my “rules” for steroid/steroid-like-substances use: (1) You must have been training for AT LEAST four years, correctly, before you even think about using. (2) You should be AT LEAST 26 years old (so as to avoid any growth-related problems). Pretty simple, eh?

Why does mag10 say for 18 and over and androsol say for 21 and over? isn’t mag10 the more powerful supplement?
just curious.

Char-dawg, I did read the Age factor thread and I think that what I got out of it was that I should wait until I am about 25 and have 5-6 years of experience to use gear. Given that MAG10 is advertised as a product with virtually no side effects on adult males, and by legislation at least, I am an adult, I thought I would ask on this board.
I only have 2 years of experience(plus 12 weeks in …you know that “challenge”…). As I mentioned in my first post, my main concern is avoiding implications in my growth. Bill Roberts here appears to dispell the notion of MAG10 affecting my growth, at least through closing of my epiphyseal plates. Perhaps there are other ways it could affect my growth, I don’t know, but I would appreciate any comments even speculation by everyone.

As a side note though, I stopped growing taller at about sixteen(did not use any gear, of course, was not even training back then....) so I think I am done growing. I realize that this is probably a weak argument, maybe I could grow a bit more, it happens in spurts, I know, and you cannot really predict it... At 5'9, I would not mind gaining another inch but I just don't see it happening. Bill, I see your argument about MAG10 rewarding bad training( have seen it before also) and I agree. So far I have not made really good gains. After my initial "transformation" my gains have been rather slow, being in pre-med has a lot to do with it, I believe. I still have a lot of learning to do, especially in the training department,no doubt(diet is NO problem). On the other hand I have a personality that.....how should I say this....I perform better when I am encouraged or when I see good results and perform worse when I am getting nowhere. So MAG10 would also help in that department. Any thoughts?I hope I did not bore anyone....or should I say everyone?

Dude, I did it. I bored everyone to death…

this is greek btw

Yeah, I noticed on a second reading that you mentioned that you had already gone through the other threads. Sorry for missing that the first time. As for the other points:

You’re right, no one really knows for sure whether MAG10 is going to impact your growth or not. If it were me, I’d take the safer route. And just as an anecdote, I also had grown to almost my full height when I was 16…but then got another 1-inch spurt at - you guessed it - 21. For what it’s worth.

Finally, if you’re 21, have less than 3-4 years’ experience training, are otherwise in good health and are not making good gains, I would say that that is more or less conclusive evidence that you have yet to learn how to train effectively. No offense intended. (In your particular case, it might also be that you have so much pre-med stress in your life that cortisol is the determining factor in your physique.) So I would hold off on androgens for the time being and instead concentrate on things like getting enough sleep and making sure that I trained with proper intensity in the gym. (Mufasa has pointed out elsewhere that, after improper nutrition, lack of intensity is probably the most prevalent mistake people make, and I agree with him. You say your diet is good, so…) Try one of Poliquin’s programs along with increased calories and see if you don’t pack on some muscle. Good luck.

DK, the Androsol age recommendation decision was
made before our test results showed that estrogen levels do NOT increase with Androsol use: a finding that surprised me actually.
When expecting (wrongly) that there would be some increase in estrogen levels, this pushed the decision to age 21.

It’s true, the labels could have been changed
after that but the idea never occurred to me and if it occurred to Tim or anyone else, they must have decided not to.

With MAG-10, we know that estrogen is not
an issue. My recommendation to Tim Patterson
was that we could go either with 18 or 21,
with some preference on my part for 21 because
most (but by no means all) 18 year old lifters would do better to focus on improving nutrition and training rather than using androgens. However, there’s also the argument that some will quite legitimately benefit and, fact is, at 18 one has all the responsibilities of being an adult, so it should be their choice (though a warning against it should certainly be there if there were a health reason, but there really isn’t
for a male user over 18 with no medical problems who intends to follow label recommendations.)

So for MAG-10 the age recommendation was decided
as 18.