T Nation

E2/Test Ratio and Adex Formula


#1

First off I apologize if this has been answered before. I have done some searching and did not find what I was looking for or at least to where I could understand it. I have been around T-Nation for quite some time but never registered or posted. Have been on HRT for several years now and have gotten everything dialed in some time back due in large part to the writings of KSman as well as many others on these boards. My question is as follows;

I know that I need 2.5 mg's of Adex spread throughout the week to keep my E2 in the mid 20's with 200 mg of test each week, also done in multiple shots (2).

If I were to raise my Test dosage to 600 mg a week while keeping my Hcg dosage of 250 iu EOD the same, is there a good formula to know how much to raise my Adex dosage?

For example do I just take my Adex dosage times 3 like I did my Test?

Bottom line reason I ask is because I just dont feel like I think I should on 600 mg's. I am afraid the relationship between my E2 and my Test levels is not linear. On 200 a week with my 2.5 mgs of Adex I feel really great. On 600 and 7.5 mg's of Adex a week I still feel good but not as good as I do on 200, but I am much stronger in the gym, which is what I am after.

I also want to apologize if I should have posted this in the Steroid forum.

Thanks in advance for your time, if I left something out or you need more info please let me know.

3+3


#2

on you on this for HRT? The dosage of Adex is not linear to Test. I think you get diminishing returns after 3.5mg/week, but don;t quote me.


#3

I think at 600mg a week you are going to above the threshold where Adex is effective at keeping your E2 in check. You should look into Letro or Aromasin.

Adex doesn’t work the same for all anyway. For example I was on it for TRT purposes and it just wouldn’t get my E2 low enough even at .5mg a day. I switched to Aromasin and it’s been fantastic. Personally I feel the best way to judge a compound, and this is just my opinion, is to run it at a dose that runs your E2 to low and then back it off and continue at a lesser dose. If you don’t you could be like me gradually increasing you Adex dose every month only to find out you’ve hit the limit of what the drug will do for you.


#4

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
on you on this for HRT? The dosage of Adex is not linear to Test. I think you get diminishing returns after 3.5mg/week, but don;t quote me.[/quote]

Yes, I am on HRT. What you say seems to make sense, we’ll see if anyone else has anything to share.

Thanks.

3+3


#5

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
I think at 600mg a week you are going to above the threshold where Adex is effective at keeping your E2 in check. You should look into Letro or Aromasin.

Adex doesn’t work the same for all anyway. For example I was on it for TRT purposes and it just wouldn’t get my E2 low enough even at .5mg a day. I switched to Aromasin and it’s been fantastic. Personally I feel the best way to judge a compound, and this is just my opinion, is to run it at a dose that runs your E2 to low and then back it off and continue at a lesser dose. If you don’t you could be like me gradually increasing you Adex dose every month only to find out you’ve hit the limit of what the drug will do for you. [/quote]

As mentioned in the previous post, this all makes sense. I ran my dose up gradually every two weeks in the past till I was at 2.5 mg a day and never felt any difference from 1 mg a day. Thanks for your input.

Does anyone else have any knowledge of the effectiveness of Adex after 3.5 mg a week or any given amount. I realize everyone is different, just looking for some others ideas and experience.

Thanks.

3+3


#6

600 a week isn’t exactly HRT. The guys over in the forum might be able to offer more advice. That dose is a cycle and congratulations for finding an MD willing to give you that much. Good Luck


#7

[quote]csman wrote:
600 a week isn’t exactly HRT. The guys over in the forum might be able to offer more advice. That dose is a cycle and congratulations for finding an MD willing to give you that much. Good Luck[/quote]

Yes, I understand this isn’t HRT at 600 a week. I guess I should have made it more clear in my first post. My HRT is 200 a week. The 600 a week is on my own in between blood work with my doc. I am sorry I did not make this more clear in my first post, I just thought it was obvious when I wrote it out.

Thanks.

3+3


#8

Thought I would bump this up for the Monday crowd. Do you guys think this would be better off in the steroid forum?


#9

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
I think at 600mg a week you are going to above the threshold where Adex is effective at keeping your E2 in check. You should look into Letro or Aromasin.

Adex doesn’t work the same for all anyway. For example I was on it for TRT purposes and it just wouldn’t get my E2 low enough even at .5mg a day. I switched to Aromasin and it’s been fantastic. Personally I feel the best way to judge a compound, and this is just my opinion, is to run it at a dose that runs your E2 to low and then back it off and continue at a lesser dose. If you don’t you could be like me gradually increasing you Adex dose every month only to find out you’ve hit the limit of what the drug will do for you. [/quote]

Brent, do you mind me asking what your dosages are with the aromasin, test, and hcg?

Thanks. 3+3


#10

What exactly is it that makes Adex non-effective for long-term use? Is it possible to cycle between different anti-estrogens to make the long term use of this drug more effective? Also, is there a difference in the potency of the liquid and the oral form of arimidex?


#11

[quote]Tylerdrms wrote:
What exactly is it that makes Adex non-effective for long-term use? Is it possible to cycle between different anti-estrogens to make the long term use of this drug more effective? Also, is there a difference in the potency of the liquid and the oral form of arimidex?[/quote]

Both are orals!

Some of the statements about long term use need to be evaluated in the context of some liquids not been dosed properly. Unless statements of this nature are made by those taking Arimidex tablets it is hard to take this as fact.

Edit to clarify: One popular source of anastrozole used to work very well and the dose-response as seen via lab work was what was expected vs Arimidex. When some started to report that they stated to need more anastrozole to maintain target lab numbers for a fixed T injection dose, in hind sight, the problem is now seen as the RC now been under dosed. At first it was assumed that their needs had changed. That conclusion is now unsupportable. I also can’t help but associate the shortages of anastrozole powder that lead to stock-outs at RC suppliers with someone short dosing or cutting of the powder or the RC product. So now we have what seems to be a false fact that anastrozole stops working as well over time.


#12

[quote]KSman wrote:
Tylerdrms wrote:
What exactly is it that makes Adex non-effective for long-term use? Is it possible to cycle between different anti-estrogens to make the long term use of this drug more effective? Also, is there a difference in the potency of the liquid and the oral form of arimidex?

Both are orals!

Some of the statements about long term use need to be evaluated in the context of some liquids not been dosed properly. Unless statements of this nature are made by those taking Arimidex tablets it is hard to take this as fact.[/quote]

ITs not the drugs Its the idiots that do not know how to use it.
IT not the drug causing the issues its the fact of driving e2 too low you get the side effects of the drug


#13

So then adex has not been truely deemed as non-safe for long term use. I’ve also heard of the drug having limitations in that you can only use it for so long until it stops working as well. KSman sry for the negligence about the orals, what I meant to ask was is there a difference in potency between the liquid and tablet form.


#14

Tylerdrms
Adex is most likely safe for long term use, but you will not find any prescribing info from the manufacturer for men as it is RX’d for women only. There are numerous studies done with men using arimidex only as possible TRT (same for Letro). The time frames go out to a year and beyond at fairly high doses (compared to what most around here use) and no adverse effects noted. There was some discussion on slightly diminishing effects during long-term use.

The liquid vs tablet: liquid you have no idea what you are getting - might be adex might not, and dose - could be what they say or maybe not (it’s underground).


#15

To clarify: One popular source of anastrozole used to work very well and the dose-response as seen via lab work was what was expected vs Arimidex. When some started to report that they stated to need more anastrozole to maintain target lab numbers for a fixed T injection dose, in hind sight, the problem is now seen as the RC now been under dosed. At first it was assumed that their needs had changed. That conclusion is now unsupportable. I also can’t help but associate the shortages of anastrozole powder that lead to stock-outs at RC suppliers with someone short dosing or cutting of the powder or the RC product. So now we have what seems to be a false fact that anastrozole stops working as well over time.


#16

I’m not going to try and get adex underground I’ll search around and find a doctor that will prescribe it as part of a TRT protocol. Either way I have heard that taking the tablets can be hazardous to the liver which was my main reason in asking the question. Also, how does alcohol comsumption work with adex. In simple terms will a mild amount (few times a week or so) of nights out render the drug much less effective? E2 control is clearly an essential part of TRT, my research so far tells me that adex is the best drug for this cause I just need to know the details.


#17

I have not seen that there is any interaction of adex and alcohol. If alcohol increases E, that is probably by interfering with P450 live enzyme pathways that clear estrogens from the body. I would not worry about alcohol-adex effects. Potentially, alcohol might reduce adex clearance which would offset reduce reduced E clearance [to some degree, perhaps trivial].

1.0mg of adex per week is not going to create any liver problems, where did you get that idea?