T Nation

E2 Swings Hard


#1

Hy All!

After reading tons and tons of pages, articles and studies, I've decided to post here.
First, sry if my English is tarsanian :slight_smile:

I'm not on TRT, but have problems with my hormon panel. Was competing in BB, had around 10 cycles (moderate doses and durations, nothing extrime).
After last cometiotion May 2014, was pretty overtrained, new job, enormus stress..and after gear stoped circulate, problems started to show up! Blood pressure 160/60, chest pain.
I was scared and had my blood test.
TSH mU/L 2,6 (0,3-5,5)
fT4 pmol/L 12 (9-23,2)
E2 pg/mL 119 (15-47)

-age - 31
-height 5' 8''
-waist 36 inches
-weight 220
-Bf 12-14%
-sensitive with DHT, not bold but weak hair since my 15th
-describe where you carry fat and how changed - hips, stomach, general middle area, always been like this.
-health conditions, symptoms
libdo is still decent, althoguh not the same as it used to be.

I've tried allmost everything to lower my E2, was sure at that time that E2 is just rebounding. ZMA, Tribulus, Multivitamines, dieting..but my E2 allways stayed high.
I'm fan off pot, and pot helped me to relax at that time, but tried to stay clean, and my tests remained crap.

Tried low carbs, high fats. High carbs, low fats..allways lifting, tried to boost strenght (strenght was increasing, but E2 stayed the same). Then tried not to lift for a 4 month, just live 'normal' at that time with no order in diet (ok, E2 was slightly increased)

For last 3 month, was on stict diet, very high in fats, minimum carbs, ZMA, mutlivitamin, DAA, 3-5g C vit. Started with power lifting protocol (strenght improved big time).
At the beginning, my test was:
E2 pg/mL 133 (15-47)
Test ng/mL 2,9 (3-10)

After 6 weeks of my protocol, test was:
E2 pg/mL 77 (15-47)
Test ng/mL 4,3 (3-10)
Prolactin mU/L 226 (50-360)
HDL mmol/L 0,9 (0,8 - 1,9, desired up to 1,6)
LDL mmol/L 5,7 (up to 4,9, desired up to 3,4)
Total chol mmol/L 7 (up to 6,2, desired up to 5,2)
triglycerides mmol/L 1 (up to 2,3, desired up to 1,7)
Iron micromol/L 16,9 (11-27)

It seemed that everything goes like it should be. Was feeling much better. No Chest pain, my libido was better, less tired..in short - happy.

Then, 6 weeks after my test was CREP again:
E2 pg/mL 223 (15-47)
Cortisol nmol/L 599 (154-638)
Test ng/mL 3,8 (3-10)
Free test pg/mL 5 (2,6 - 9,8)
FSH U/L 6,6 (2-15)
LH U/L 3,5 (0,4-15)
SHBG nmol 14 (13-71)
TSH mU/L 1,88 (0,3-5,5)
T3 nmol/L 1,9 (1,2-2,8)
T4 nmol/L 103 (55-152)
HDL mmol/L 1 (0,8 - 1,9, desired up to 1,6)
LDL mmol/L 6,6 (up to 4,9, desired up to 3,4)
Total chol mmol/L 8,1 (up to 6,2, desired up to 5,2)
triglycerides mmol/L 1,1 (up to 2,3, desired up to 1,7)
Iron Micromol/L 17,7 (11-27)

Again pot off, 9 day later:
E2 was 131
And 2 day after that:
E2 was 163

Have no idea what could be the couse off E2 swings..thats is almost unbelievable and not sure that my current results can give the right condition.

Can my cortisol level swing E2, something else ACTH perhaps..have no clue what to do, but not beleived that doc could help (last one, defintly couldn't..bot!).

Maybe with all this new tests, I'll try with endocrinologist again.

Sry for long post, it was a long ride.


Low T High DHEA-S
#2

Were you not using iodized salt then started again?
Check oral body temperatures to evaluate overall thyroid function.
When you first wake up should be 97.8-97.8, but higher is OK
If 97.3 or less, that is a problem.
Also check that you get 98.6 mid-afternoon.
Are your outer eyebrows sparse?
Do you ever get cold easily? Changed?
Thyroid enlarged, lumpy or asymmetrical?

Better to test TSH, fT3, fT4

Tell me more about stress, injuries, surgeries, illnesses, inflammation etc.

Need labs:
CBC
AST/ALT

Liver may not be able to clear estrogens properly.
Do you get sun exposure on your skins and/or take vit-D3?

E2 levels are a balance of T–>E2 and E2 clearance by the liver

Less T, less T–>E2. So I suspect liver.

You need anastrozole to reduce E2 as you also try to find the cause.


#3

You’ve never been on an AI? No anastrozole?


#4

KSman - damn, u are right! That make sense…never pay atention to iron!

In last 2 months, stareted to salt my cabbage with iodized salt (just picked it up from companies ktichen). From monday to friday I put iodized (1-2 times, quite much) and regular salt for weekend…
Is it possible to swing e2 220-130-160 ?!

Mesured temp after waked up 97.3 and again around 16h 97.1 (but not sure if that counts, because i was starved, only 6eggs with 200g broccoli for breakfast…and later tropic outside, 98.5)

Outer eyebrows sparse - not sure if u mean about my collor arround my eves and bags below - had them.

My privious test in may was:
AST U\L 43 (up to 40)
ALT U\L 65 (up to 37)
Gama GT U\L 20.9 (11-50)

I guess after hight fat diet, that liver is even more loaded.

These days I need to get physical examination, can scan for thyroid enlargement?

Stressor - that king of person! Rensposible job, trying private business, kids, money struggle - u name it…

Not sure what u think with injuries - some hard car crash 3 years ago. Big time inflamation after first 6 weeks of new protocol - nack and traps was numb, couldnt sleap for 2 weeks, terrible. No Ion salt for 7days in that period also…

Have sun, have d3.

To sumarise:
E2 influnce thyroid to slow down (my high fat diet helped a lot with that). Then Iron swinging started to reflect to E2 swing?

Ok, its clear that I need to take care of my thyroid, plan is to increase carbs, and to lower fats (that would help liver to) and to take some liv52 or similar. Lifting my test didnt gave expected results (aromatise+liver toxic done their work also).

My doubt for E2, remains - I was trying for 14 month to solve high E2 without adex…to be precise, Ive used adex at the begging, and after stoping est goes sky high (trying to solve the cause, not effects). To continue that way? (With liver regulation, iodenized salt off my diet)

Im aware that high E2 will impact thyroid, but not so smart what is the best. To take adex and solve everything else, and to hope after some time that can go witout it? (Or I need to take it always :frowning: )
Doing my best to get homeostaza without medicaments, but if its not smart, because this imabalnce started to demage other parts, I’ll do what is needed!

Thanks a lot KSman, this swinging was my nightmare - all of theory fell, it would be impossible to regular e2 to constantly level even with adex in that way :slight_smile:


#5

Outer eyebrows sparse - not sure if u mean about my collor arround my eves and bags below - had them.
Little hair on outside of eyebrows.

How does hormone decline line up with the major accident?


#6

My eyebrows are normal.
About my car crash, good bumb, but cant tell the diference.

Whats ur opinion about adex in this mess?
Is it wise still trying to get hormonal balance naturaly? Maybe to try 6 weeks with correction, and after that if there isnt improvement hit the adex?

Im not aware if thyroid problem is something big, but gonna run scaner and ft3, ft4, tsh to be sure…long period with high e2


#7

If some had similar problems with high e2 and haven’t been on TRT, i would be much appreciate for replay.
Its well known that adex wouldn’t stop conversion in testiculares, so not sure what to do? (I’m not concerned about my low T, if stays low after e2 goes down, then would consider TRT)


#8

It is natural for most men to have hormone imbalances and reduced quality of life issues when older. We also see BB-gear guys getting these problems. Adex may produces positive changes beyond E2.


#9

Thanks to KSman, done some searching. Thought that my HPTA was the problem, but not so sure.
Want to share my conclusion.
My morning temp was 97.3, and afternoon around 97.5-97.7
Obviously thyroid is not in the best mode (T3, T4 are in middle, so suspect on rT3 and Adrenaline gland should be the start point, cortisol was high to).

I mentioned that I had nasty neck+trap inflammation, and hadn’t quality sleep several weeks. This and ion cycling may caused swinging.
After analyzing my lab results and dieting, I come to conclusion that very high fat diet issued liver problems and stopped discharging estradiol.
In the beginning of my regime, estradiol was lowered down to 77 from 133, lost several pounds. After slowing down metabolism, fats become more and more toxic to liver, and I think that this is an issue with elevation of estradiol.
I put carbs and reduce fats and take selen (need to do ion IR too). I took silymarin and now I will monitor what is happening.
Trying to reduce stress, coffe out and all stimulants.
Just reporting, about my plans and condition. See you in few weeks.
Regards