T Nation

E2 Results: Good Yet Kinda Bad

THE MAIN QUESTION:
For the three weeks, starting four weeks before my blood test i was taking .75mg arimidex a week. Then i realized that i always get bloodwork while using arimidex and should stop. I stopped for the 4th week, and then gave blood. After stopping for a week my e2 was 11 with the men’s e2 test.

now my question for you guys is, how long does arimidex take to affect your e2 levels (not create a physiologically user-noticeable response)?

MY HYPOTHESIS:
I think/believe that my e2 of 11 is not the “natural” point it would be at if i had never used arimidex. i think it is still coming back up even after a week later. I also do weekly shots, so most of my e2 is probably generated at a specific time in the week.
Stopping arimidex completely will probably put my e2 at high 20’s on once weekly shots, in my stupid opinion.

MY SOLUTION:
I think that even though i was low with e2 on arimidex, that if a week later im at e2=11, which is maybe 7-11 points too low, i should use arimidex but not .75mg

.2mg arimidex weekly, on day of injection seems appropriate.

FWIW: I take l-opti-zinc each day, afternoon. multi vitamin with zinc in morning. also taking NSI DIM Complex which is mostly cruciferous blend rather than straight DIM (much more natural/less likely to overdose IMO). I think that this may further be a reason i may need only .2mg a week or none at all of arimidex. also i am young, only 23, so maybe my e2 regulation is naturally much stronger then you old farts.

YOUR HYPOTHESIS/SOLUTION:

???

Your other post states you never got libido back after starting on TRT/HRT.
So, how long were you on shots before you took any herbs/meds to lower E2?

Most, I say most, guys that lose their libido due to low T levels get it back when they start on T shots. (at least until E2 takes away the fun)You haven’t. I still don’t trust you were given the right E2 test. Please post exactly what the test results say from the printout if you would. That will alleviate any questions about which exact test you took.

No libido=high E2, start on shots no libido=high E2, unless you are the medical mystery from another planet, IMHO, you may be an under responder. I know of one other man that unless he takes large doses of adex (.75mg/day) he has no libido and tends to store body fat in butt, gut, and thighs.

So I suggest you go off all E2 related herbs/meds for three days, then take 1mg adex day one, 1mg adex day three, and .25mg EOD until day 14. If by day 15 you don’t wake up under a tent with morning wood, we’ll go to plan “B”. How does that sound?

Are you on TRT and how much?

I don’t know why you would stop for the blood work when you need the blood work to be a guide for dose changes.

Arimidex over-responders will often need to take 1/4 or 1/8th of the expected dose [of 1mg/wk when on TRT].

E2 regulation? There really is no such thing in the way that you are suggesting.

Supplements cannot reduce T–>E aromatization significantly.

Was the E2=11 in a 0-53 range?

KNB:
Please, for the sake of this thread, just believe me that I did indeed select the correct e2 test. I know that once I came off the arimidex, and my e2 was around 11, things were better then before when I was on it. I also know that when Istarted arimidex at the beginning of my TRT and I went straight to 1-2mg a week. This brought me too low.

I do get morning wood. Things aren’t as bad as they may seem from my other post. I’ve come some way.

KSMAN:
Yes I am on TRT. 160mg a week. This keeps me around 800 at the trough.

The reason to stop arimidex for bloodwork is to see if indeed I even need arimidex. I could have had estrogen domination effects for many reasons before, such as low thyroid function (which competes with e), as well as other reasons. I also know that after stopping for a week, i went UP to 11 e2. Means 1mg a week was too much. I need much less.

E2 regulation very well does exist in the exact manner I am suggesting. Older man have trouble regulating e2 as opposed to younger men. reasons such as increased aromatization, decreased excretion via liver, and increased bodyfat come to mind as some examples.

I do not want to recude e2 significantly. clearly the “gold standard of 1mg arimidex, that should’nt ever take you too low” clearly took me below. If i waited a week since my last dose, my e2 should be on the rise as well. even then, it was only 11.

look i guess i shouldnt have flooded you guys with information. its making this much more complicated then it should be.

I greatly respect you guys and would love your help.

So let’s try this:

A man who is taking arimidex was on roughly 1mg of arimidex weekly. The man stopped taking arimidex for a week. Blood taken from that day, with the correct blood test for e2 shows e2 at 11.

With this is mind, what would you guess my e2 was during/soon after the arimidex use, rather then a week later? With this 1mg arimidex equating to e2 of 11, what would be an intellient dosage change?

My guess as I said before is around .2mg weekly, or maybe none at all. None at all because you people on here often say that arimidex doesnt take you too low usually. it has a self regulating mech.

so if a mere 1mg a week took me too low…

thanks for your input. and let me add that no disrespect or meanness is/was meant in my posting. I’m just trying to cut through the crap

[quote]foxdie wrote:

With this is mind, what would you guess my e2 was during/soon after the arimidex use, rather then a week later? With this 1mg arimidex equating to e2 of 11, what would be an intellient dosage change?

My guess as I said before is around .2mg weekly, or maybe none at all. None at all because you people on here often say that arimidex doesnt take you too low usually. it has a self regulating mech.
[/quote]

First of all, I want to reask the question KNSMan posed but to which you did not respond. What is the scale of your e2 test. Normally, here in the US it is on a scale of 0-53. If that is the scale, then 11 is extremely low. How do you feel?

I had a period of a week in which I was taking too much arimidex (around 1.5 mg/week) and it caused me to become tired and lethargic. I cut out the arimidex for three days and was back to normal and resumed treatment at lower dosage (in my case about 0.8 mg/week.

< or = 29 is the scale
pg/ml

quest diagnostics

i specifically selected the men’s e2 test

and yeah i dont feel that great with low e2. i’m gonna keep cutting back/stopping arimidex. i feel like very very close to hittin that sweet spot.

So you’re 11 out of <=29.
Do your joints hurt, are you “crabby”, emotional, listless, foggy headed, or total loss of morning wood?
If no, then your E2 isn’t too low.

Okay, we now know which test you took, so that’s no longer a question, and they use a different scale for the “men specific” E2 test.

The standard Quest Estradiol range is 0-54pg/ml.
It appears Quest has developed a new test standard for men. That is a good thing for men on HRT to now use on the bonehead doctors some of them have that ignore E2 levels above 40.
For some guys, 40pg/ml is their happy spot, and for others it’s the low 20’s…

[quote]foxdie wrote:
< or = 29 is the scale
pg/ml

quest diagnostics

i specifically selected the men’s e2 test

and yeah i dont feel that great with low e2. i’m gonna keep cutting back/stopping arimidex. i feel like very very close to hittin that sweet spot.[/quote]

Here’s my question. Did you ever get your e2 done prior to beginning HRT? What was it then?

I don’t have an answer to your question as to why after one week off arimidex, you had an e2 of 11/29. However, on that scale, 11 is low but not extremely low. If you are feeling the symptoms that KSMan mentioned, then stay off arimidex until those symptoms disappear. I would also say in order not to complicate things, you should stop the DIM.

Once the symptoms disappear, drop down to .5 mg/week. See how you do. If symptoms re-emerge. Discontinue until symptoms disappear and then drop down to .2 mg/week.

my e2 prior to trt was low 20’s.

concerning my feelings with e2 of 11, and it “not being too low”…

KNB: you must realize 11 is mighty close to the sweet spot that most people believe in. (17-25 or so).

And yes, the symptoms you describe I do feel to a small degree, not a large one. which coincides great with my e2 of 11. low but not extremely low. almost good… i am targeting near my pre-trt e2 level.

Also realize that I can “overcome” the effects of low e2 to an extent, and may not feel as bad as I should.

I have alot going for me healthwise/libido-wise, that even with fuked up e2 I can manage to have sex.

I am young, I take a barrage of supplements, I exercise regularly, eat a great diet, etc.

Please lets not delve into “what supps do you take”…trust me I have extensive knowledge as to their effects, interactions, etc.

Really this thread has gotten quite off track. It’s become a thread about helping me in general, and my specific situation, blood tests, etc. You guys are putting too much thought, heart, and interest into my original question.

I simply want to know:

"A man who is taking arimidex was on roughly 1mg of arimidex weekly. The man stopped taking arimidex for a week. Blood taken from that day, with the correct blood test for e2 shows e2 at 11.

With this is mind, what would you guess my e2 was during/soon after the arimidex use, rather then a week later? With this 1mg of arimidex resulting in an e2 of 11, what would be an intelligent dosage change?

This should be based solely on mathematics derived from halflifes, personal experiences of your own, and dosages.

Please guys, I appreciate your help. I really do, but I would prefer to “dumb down” this thread and keep it more simple. I’ll deal with my personal specifics of blood levels, etc. I simply cannot find data to help me calculate a rough window of what my arimidex dosage should become now, to achieve a low 20’s e2.

Again, thanks to all, and I hope I do not come off being a dik.

Here we go again…
Okay the 1mg/week dosage that was stopped, how long before the dosage was stopped was it started (1/2 life question) in weeks?
The next part of the question is:
was it Exactly 7 days since the dosage before blood work?

You say “roughly” 1mg/week what was dosing schedule? 1mg divided by seven days? What?
I can calculate the exact blood levels at the time of your last test, but I need to know every stinkin’ detail about your dosing.
I understand you want the simple answer, that’s fine just fill in the blanks and I’ll see what I can come up with.

hey KNB. ok heres the breakdown.

1.)
months ago:
At 1.5mg arimidex a week for two weeks, my e2 levels were <2. last .5mg dosage was 3 days before bloodtest. obviously this dosage was much too high…

fast forward to beginning of this year:
1st week of january: 1.25mg arimidex (split biweekly)
2nd week of january: .5mg arimidex (split biweekly)(jan 7th, .25 jan 8th .25 LAST DOSE until bloodtest)
3rd week, Jan 16th: bloodtest. results came back 11.

2.) im thinkin the 1.25mg 2 weeks before my test was too much, and that the .5mg the next week was actually pretty close to what i need…does this make sense? 11 is too low, but i had a higher dosage 2 weeks prior then 1 week prior… maybe if i stay on .4mg/.5mg weekly i will hit 19 or so?

3.) also as far as dosing frequency…more often must be better…but if im taking shots once a week, i think using the full .4mg weekly on the day of my shots will mitigate the high rise of e2 from the test spike. this seems better than splitting the dose .2mg and .2mg throughout the week. im sure as the end of the week rolls around, im not aromatizing too much e2 as levels are lower and within the range.

4.) After the last dose of arimidex, during the week of time leading to the blood test, did the arimidex lower my levels during the first days, and then start to rise again until my bloodtest, or would my e2 be dropping towards my bloodtest?

5.) I think I either need .2mg, .3mg, or .4mg weekly. or possibly none at all…but i think i would have enjoyed some kind of libido after stopping arimidex for a week or two.

thanks for your help and input.

Starting at the end of paragraph following 1:
Your blood level came back 11. Did your joints hurt, were you foggy or depressed or did your joints hurt or any other negative signs of too much adex? To eliminate redundancy I’m jumping to 3.)
Once again, twice a week is not the best dosing for adex. Every day, or EOD is much better for stabilizing blood levels.
4.) Since adex will stay in your system for almost two weeks (albeit at low levels)your E2 levels were most likely to still be dropping towards your blood test.
5.)Did your libido change any at all during your using adex? “Most” guys that have missed the “sweet spot” with adex find their libido back within three days after stopping adex. If you had no libido before, and had none during the use of adex, even though your test results were low, you may have been on too low a dosage. Maybe.
Since you can “still manage” to have sex, your libido is not totally gone gone. If you are looking for a “feel good/better” immediately, here’s a thought: You didn’t get elevated E2 overnight, and they won’t go away overnight either. My E2 levels dropped from 105 to 47 in two weeks on adex, but I didn’t “feel better” for at least another month.

I now apologize, because I don’t have the answer you were looking for. I re-read your posts, and since your E2 levels were all over the place and you still get morning wood, here’s my final answer: start back at 1/4mg week in divided doses, on a at least EOD dosing schedule. I hope you have liquid adex (I didn’t see if you did or not)otherwise dosing small amounts is difficult, and wait until your head clears. I may take a month or more. Good luck.