40 Y/O/M
185 lbs
5’8"
100 mg T Cyp week (E3D injections)
1 year working on TRT, 2 mo. on injections
Ok, have been working on my TRT for bout a year and found this site way too late. General pract. put me on Androgel to start. Went from 2.5 mg daily to 10 mg daily and saw my numbers drop. Found T Nation and switched to an Endo and changed to Test Cyp injections ( numbers up ). Problem is I have to fight the Dr. to get anything.
Dr. wanted 2 week injections had to fight to be able to self inject and he said he could only write it as once a week injections and I could do E3D on my own. No big deal. Problem is my new labs ( will post at end ) have my E2 at 61 ( Quest(13-54 pg/ml). My Dr states it is not a problem till symptom arise and he can not prescribe aridex because it is a “bodybuilding drug” if used off scrip. What can I do Or do I need to do? Thanks
Quest labs (ask for anything else you need)
5/2/11 (on androgel) 7/6/11 (T Cyp 100mg week)
CORTISOL
8.6(mcg/dl) did not run
ESTRADIOL
51(13-54 pg/ml) 61 (13-54 pg/ml)
IGF I, ECL
237(50-303 ng/ml did not run
PSA, TOTAL
0.5(<OR=4.0 ng/mL) 0.5
T3, FREE
3.0(2.3-4.2 pg/ml) did not run
T4, FREE
0.9(0.8-1.8 ng/dl) did not run
TEST FREE AND TOTAL
total 199 L(241-827 ng/dl) 661(250-1100 ng/dl)
free did not test free 153.9(35.0-155.0 pg/ml)
TSH 3RD GENERATION
2.27(0.04-4.50 mlU/L) did not test
I do have results from Jan. 2011 as well as from my physical on 3/21/11 as well as the normal lab panels
Ok I have more time to update my post.
-age 40
-height 5’8"
-waist 30"
-weight 185 lbs
-describe body and facial hair good, no balding in family. some back hair
-describe where you carry fat and how changed belly fat is where I carry most
-health conditions, symptoms [history] Low energy/sex drive no ED
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever besides Test, zertec, D3, fish oil, glucosamine, ZMA, GABA
-lab results with ranges see above
-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] on and off clean when feeling good and junk/fast food when feeling bad. fairly good as of late
-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training] same as diet. Pretty good as off late
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? No
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed Morning wood/erections are good. Never had ED
At my worst I was 230lbs w 38" waist.
Your Estradiol is through the roof and it’s killing your TRT benefits, I guarantee it. Mine was only 42 and getting on anastrozole made a world of difference for me. Shooting your E2 that high is arguably worse than letting your T stay low…if your doc doesn’t recognize that it may be time to move on.
You want E2 to be in the 20’s pure and simple. Three times that is not OK.
Re. your doc: Anastrozole is a “bodybuilding drug?” Right, and Testosterone isn’t? What an asinine statement. I guess my doctor and hundreds of others are all breaking the law by prescribing their male patients anastrozole.
Thanks for replying. Thats what I thought. So next Question is for a recomendation for a Dr. in the southwest. I’m in El Paso, Tx. far west Texas right next to New Mexico. I have had no luck locally and and currently with the Endo everyone recomends.
Going to try another local Endo if I can get an appointment. Until then can I do anything to help lower it? Do any of the supplements work or are they a waist of money? How long or high till most (I know everyone is different) start to see serious sides of the E2 ie:gyno?
[quote]bburford wrote:
Going to try another local Endo if I can get an appointment. Until then can I do anything to help lower it? Do any of the supplements work or are they a waist of money? How long or high till most (I know everyone is different) start to see serious sides of the E2 ie:gyno?[/quote]
You can get liquid anastrozole from a research chem site, it’s pretty affordable and works just as well. A lot of guys use it. I would too if my insurance didn’t cover the pills; they’re very expensive out-of-pocket.
You’re probably feeling some sides already, you just might not be aware of it since it creeps up slowly. I can pretty much guarantee that however you’re feeling now, you will improve when you get the E2 in check.
[quote]reidnez wrote:
You can get liquid anastrozole from a research chem site, it’s pretty affordable and works just as well. A lot of guys use it. I would too if my insurance didn’t cover the pills; they’re very expensive out-of-pocket.
You’re probably feeling some sides already, you just might not be aware of it since it creeps up slowly. I can pretty much guarantee that however you’re feeling now, you will improve when you get the E2 in check.[/quote]
Have you or anyone used any of the research chem sites that you would recommend? if this new Endo can’t see me soon I will try that. I’m sure my insurance will cover the Arimidex if I can get it prescribed and that would save me alot of money in the long run. I have noticed the energy levels dropping as well as my mood so I need to get something done soon.
If you haven’t, just google it. There are tons of RC shops. Most are fine. Getting your E2 in check will make a huge difference as mentioned. The AI is the hardest to get in my experience. You could probably do good with getting some hcg in there - that will help your total T, sense of well-being, plus keep your boys full.
Have an appointment for Aug. 25th so I will try liquid untill then. What would be a good starting point for me with my E2 being as high as it is? Thanks
Ordered the liquid. They had a special, buy 2 get 1 free plus 10% off, came to $90. So I’m still wondering what a good start doseage for me would be. Also, I can get meds in Mexico, is Anastrozole counterfited alot in Mexico or would that be a safe bet?
If you spent $90 on liquid anastrozole, you did not get that great of a deal. Plus anastrozole has a limited shelf life and will start to be less effect after 6 months or ssooner, so if you bought a long term supplythat is probably not good either.
The average price I found was $50 to $70 a bottle. I was hoping it would last 3 months but am not sure because I still don’t know how much I should take. If you know of a cheaper site or a better way please say so. I asked for help because I don’t know and am obviously worried. If you can contribute your knowledge I would appreciate it.
Common starting dosage is .25mg every other day, but you may need more or less. Some men are super-sensitive. I would recommend using an insulin syringe with the needle removed for the most accurate dosage with the liquid. The supplied dropper is not precise enough in my opinion.
Get your E2 retested after 6 weeks to check up, and adjust from there (goal is to keep it in the 20’s.) You may have to adjust periodically. For me, joint pain flares up badly and mood is not great if I drop E2 too low–I usually skip a dose or two and I’m fine.
VTBalla, interesting info about shelf life. Do you happen to know if this applies to tablets as well, or just liquid?
I don’t know specifically. I assume the tablets have a longer shelf life though. My pharmacist specifically said that the shelf life of the liquid was 3 months tops. Take this with a grain of salt, because she could just be regurgitating what the FDA has told her she has to say, so it could be longer. I really just don’t know.
[quote]reidnez wrote:
Common starting dosage is .25mg every other day, but you may need more or less. Some men are super-sensitive. I would recommend using an insulin syringe with the needle removed for the most accurate dosage with the liquid. The supplied dropper is not precise enough in my opinion.
Thanks. I had read several different things on starting dosages from 1mg a day to the common .25 E2D as you stated. I just wasn’t sure if I should start higher since mine is so high. I had also read about using night wood and morning wood as a way of helping to dial it in. Has anyone done this? My next blood test isn’t for 3 mo. unless the new Endo will order sooner. The liquid I got is 1 mg/ml 50 ml, and I got 3 bottles! Thats 2 years! Crap : ( Should have read more before I ordered, I was a little freaked about it.
What is the shelf life of T cyp? I get 1,000 mg/10 ml a month and use 100 a week. Can I continue on the same bottle and stock pile some in reserve?
1mg/day is insane IMO, that’s the standard dose for women with breast cancer. That would completely wipe out most guys’ E2 in no time flat.
I would go the conservative route and just start with .25 EOD, and retest in about 6 weeks to see where you’re at. Crashing your E2 doesn’t feel good and isn’t healthy, I’ve done it. You won’t really know until the labs come back but it will definitely move you in the right direction at least.
It’s hard to give an exact shelf-life for anything, but T-cyp is pretty stable stuff. I’m sure it’s good for a year and probably much longer. Even when meds do ‘expire’ it’s generally just a question of reduced potency, not a health hazard. You’re really lucky to get it prescribed that way BTW, I get compounded T and get exactly what I’m prescribed…no cycling for me.
Yes, you can stockpile. Start with .25 EOD for the AI. You’ll know soon enough if you are an over-responder. I’m an over-responder, and finalized on .08 EOD. KSMAN has a formula on here somewhere I think to figure out what you need.
Catfish,
How long should i give a specific dosage per week to run before making an adjustment to AI? I suspect that I am an over responder and have only been going two and a half weeks, so too soon for blood work. What symptoms did you get with low e2?
If you don’t know what symptoms you are looking for of low E2, how in the hell did you determine you are an overresponder?
VTBalla,
fair question. My post said that I suspect that I am, I am not certain, but I am new to this. when i started trt, i was having some sex drive, but not great. shortly into trt the sex drive was improving then it stopped all together, within a week, as I have gradually lowered the AI dose it has come back a bit, but not where it was before I started. So this is the only clue I have, though I would like to be aware of other possible indicators.