[quote]WOrta1128 wrote:
… or how about the fact that shaq can’t so much as move more than an inch without one of the refs calling one on him. …[/quote]
Holy crap! I think I’ve heard it all now. I have never (and I mean never) seen anybody get away with more offensive fouls than Shaq, ether by shoving his huge ass into the defender and knocking him over or by clearing the defender out with his elbow when he does a spin move.
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
Hey Josh Howard, you’ve been playing well, but how about hitting those 2 free throws…you choker.[/quote]
They were his only misses I think.
Cough, cough.
[quote]Kir Dog wrote:
Regarding the timeout at the end. The refs know better, they should double check with the head coach because everybody in the building knows that the timeout goes after the second free throw, not before it.
[/quote]
The ref has to call it if the player calls it to the ref, he cant double check with the bench / coach. That’s the rule. As I understand it, he did double check with Josh Howard, as in the ref’s words Josh asked him twice to call it. The ref knew, everyone knew, but he can’t make a judgement call like that, it would be the ULTIMATE ref deciding the game type move.
[quote]Bearcat97 wrote:
WOrta1128 wrote:
… or how about the fact that shaq can’t so much as move more than an inch without one of the refs calling one on him. …
Holy crap! I think I’ve heard it all now. I have never (and I mean never) seen anybody get away with more offensive fouls than Shaq, ether by shoving his huge ass into the defender and knocking him over or by clearing the defender out with his elbow when he does a spin move.
[/quote]
so he should be penalized for being bigger and stronger than everyone else?
maybe i’m just biased. i don’t know. doesn’t make much sense to me that he should be just because most everyone else is smaller.
[quote]GhostOfYourMind wrote:
If the original poster was talking about where Wade went over the half court mark when Miami took the ball out in I think OT (maybe it was the 4th, it was a long game…heh), I think he was already behind the line before he received the ball from whoever was inbounding it. I think that’s allowed; not 100% sure though. I’m going off my middle school days of basketball; I have no clue what the rules are for that type of situation in the NBA though.
Anyways, still a good game last night IMO! The thing that pissed me off the most was the “Hack a Shaq”. I thought that was pretty lame.
So far it’s been a damn good series though.
(go heat…hehe)[/quote]
The inbounds pass can be made into the backcourt and he can go get it. He has to have posession in the front court (not just tap it) to then get a backcourt violation, but I personally thought he had the ball completely in the front court and his momentum took him into the backcourt-although he jumped pretty far and maybe never touched down in the frontcourt with possession. There was also a clear travelling non-call on the other end of the court a few possessions earlier. One of the Mavs guards received the pass, had it bounce off his hands and back up where he held it in both hands and then after a second, he started dribbling. I think that is travelling.
[quote]JohnnyNinja wrote:
Kir Dog wrote:
Regarding the timeout at the end. The refs know better, they should double check with the head coach because everybody in the building knows that the timeout goes after the second free throw, not before it.
The ref has to call it if the player calls it to the ref, he cant double check with the bench / coach. That’s the rule. As I understand it, he did double check with Josh Howard, as in the ref’s words Josh asked him twice to call it. The ref knew, everyone knew, but he can’t make a judgement call like that, it would be the ULTIMATE ref deciding the game type move.[/quote]
yeah I hear what your saying. The refs can and have in the past taken away a timeout. It has been done and that time was as good as any to take the timeout away…after they KNEW what Dallas’ intent was, you know…after the 2nd shot.
I just don’t like it when something that stupid costs a potential championship series.
The main point of focus should be, Howard…what are you doing? The second point should be, hey refs, stop deciding the game.
It’s not as bad as the NFL playoffs but…
I’m glad my team’s not getting robbed, they just got BEAT. Hey Lamar Odom, how about that rebound buddy. Yeah that one right there…oh crap someone get a hand in Tim Thomas’s face…ball swishes.
Laker fans know what I’m talking about.
I still love ya Lamar! Next year pal.
I’d hate to be the one who has to clean up Shaq’s bathroom floor! BRICK!
I can’t believe that he can’t figur out a way to hit half his free throws in 30 years of playing basketball, especially with the soft NBA rims.
And as far as pushing people around with your butt, my take is that if you get the ball in the post, and the defender is is already totally set, or gets two feet clearly set before contact you can’t push him. If he comes up to get to you while you are backing down, or if he lifts a foot to get into position, you can just keep moving. He has to get both feet planted prior to any real contact. Same with boxing out. And in the semicircle, the guy with the ball can push all he wants.
Also remember that they put in the anti-hack-a-shaq rule for the last two minutes. I don’t really have problem with this though. I never like the idea that you could foul someone (something that can get you disqualified from a game) to stop the clock. I think that if the defense fouls anyone (not just away from the ball) in the penalty, the offense should get to take the ball out from half court with a fresh shot clock if they choose.
I meant to post this picture instead. cleary showing he goes in untouched. as for mertdawg, you have to ESTABLISH position in the backcourt to be able to get the ball IN THE BACKCOURT. and a ref at halfcourt should have called that, or the stiff arm on terry. Shaq not getting calls? are you kidding? the guy throws elbows every game and doesnt get suspended because they are “incidental”
From another angle, the angle that people SHOULD be looking at.
There wasn’t much contact with Dirk.
However, Harris CLEARLY grabs his ELBOW while Dwyane is in the air in the act of shooting.
He was UNEQUIVOCALLY fouled ON his shooting arm.
Was it a backcourt violation? Not sure. Did he push off? Not sure.
But saying it was a phantom foul = you’re now owned. So hush.
This thread should be renamed to:
I hate Miami because of its great weather, hot women, and the home of the ‘next Michael Jordan’
Let’s Go HEAT!
From another angle, the angle that people SHOULD be looking at.
There wasn’t much contact with Dirk.
However, Harris CLEARLY grabs his ELBOW while Dwyane is in the air in the act of shooting.
He was UNEQUIVOCALLY fouled ON his shooting arm.
Was it a backcourt violation? Not sure. Did he push off? Not sure.
But saying it was a phantom foul = you’re now owned. So hush.[/quote]
OWNED.
Oh yah, two more issues.
If people keep up this bullshit about the foul on Terry (who, along with Harris, deserve Oscars for their Vlade Divac-esque flopping performance in the playoffs this year), maybe I should start posting screen shots of the 238957892592 times this finals that Dirk leads with his opposite arm when driving towards the hoop to create space.
People have been doing what Wade did (and look at Terry, you think a shove off = you go flying backwards? That’s called a flop, even if there was contact) since the inception of driving scorers from Dr. J to Jordan to Dominique to Kobe to…etc. COULD it have been called an offensive foul? Maybe.
The other issue is the desparity in free throws.
Hack a shaq resulted in ~8 extra free throws. So instead of 50 to 25 (IIRC), that’d be more like 42 to 25.
Miami is a team that relies on getting points in the paint, and Wade is one of the best drivers in the league who was forcing the issue ALL game.
Dallas is almost entirely a jump shooting team. Saying 42 to 25 FTs in the above context is ‘outrageous’ is fucking stupid. If a jump shooting team gets more FTs, then you have a complaint. The Heat aren’t a jump shooting team.
You can’t have it both ways. You don’t get to pick and choose JUST the plays you don’t like. Every questionable call affects the outcome of the game, and there were OBVIOUSLY questionable calls that went in the Mavs’ favor too.
In short, the Mavs, their owner, and their fans are being crybaby bitches. Nobody has given Miami an ounce of respect this whole series.
All of that said, I don’t know if Miami WILL win heading to Dallas. They’re an outstanding team, particularly at home, and they’re obviously very pissed and motivated now.
But whatever happens, shut the fuck up and enjoy a spectacular finals. People the internet round are arguing themselves retarded (see all the ‘no foul on Wade’ bullshit) over a couple of questionable calls.
Newsflash: there have been questionable calls in every finals ever that have and did shape games. If Dallas were better at closing out their opponents (classically a problem for them), this wouldn’t even be an issue.
[quote]Jumbos10 wrote:
The whole problem is when either Dirk or Dwyane plays at home they get the benefit of the doubt on all calls. I just can’t stand how Dwyane Wade is such a pussy and complains about every damn call and the same with shaq. At least Dirk keeps his mouth shut instead of crying for a foul every time down the floor.[/quote]
You have got to be kidding me.
Wade is of the same mold as Iverson – an undersized (albeit not nearly small) guard who takes it to the hole hard and often, and takes a beating because of it. He is one of the most tight-lipped stars in the league and has that reputation – which is why I’m surprised at your comments. Dirk, on the other hand seems to do his fair share of bitching…but I love Dirk, I think he’s a phenomenal player and a good personality.
[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Jumbos10 wrote:
The whole problem is when either Dirk or Dwyane plays at home they get the benefit of the doubt on all calls. I just can’t stand how Dwyane Wade is such a pussy and complains about every damn call and the same with shaq. At least Dirk keeps his mouth shut instead of crying for a foul every time down the floor.
You have got to be kidding me.
Wade is of the same mold as Iverson – an undersized (albeit not nearly small) guard who takes it to the hole hard and often, and takes a beating because of it. He is one of the most tight-lipped stars in the league and has that reputation – which is why I’m surprised at your comments. Dirk, on the other hand seems to do his fair share of bitching…but I love Dirk, I think he’s a phenomenal player and a good personality.
[/quote]
I like Wade, but he does get that annoying crybaby look on his face quite a bit. Of course, the worst ever in the NBA is Mutombo, with the slow head shake on every call against him. If you’re trying to show “bad call” with a facial expression, I think a look of confusion is better for your image.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I’d hate to be the one who has to clean up Shaq’s bathroom floor! BRICK!
I can’t believe that he can’t figur out a way to hit half his free throws in 30 years of playing basketball, especially with the soft NBA rims.[/quote]
I can’t believe he can’t figure out to put some arch on it. He seems to think he’s 9 feet tall and can shoot down at the basket.
[quote]Right Side Up wrote:
Jumbos10 wrote:
The whole problem is when either Dirk or Dwyane plays at home they get the benefit of the doubt on all calls. I just can’t stand how Dwyane Wade is such a pussy and complains about every damn call and the same with shaq. At least Dirk keeps his mouth shut instead of crying for a foul every time down the floor.
You have got to be kidding me.
Wade is of the same mold as Iverson – an undersized (albeit not nearly small) guard who takes it to the hole hard and often, and takes a beating because of it. He is one of the most tight-lipped stars in the league and has that reputation – which is why I’m surprised at your comments. Dirk, on the other hand seems to do his fair share of bitching…but I love Dirk, I think he’s a phenomenal player and a good personality.
[/quote]
Compared to a lot of other guards in the league, Dwayne Wade is hardly undersized.
[quote]AlphaJules wrote:
I meant to post this picture instead. cleary showing he goes in untouched. as for mertdawg, you have to ESTABLISH position in the backcourt to be able to get the ball IN THE BACKCOURT. and a ref at halfcourt should have called that, or the stiff arm on terry. Shaq not getting calls? are you kidding? the guy throws elbows every game and doesnt get suspended because they are “incidental”[/quote]
They touched on this during Sports Center last night. They said that, when under two minutes of regulation, on an inbound pass, the player is allowed to move into the backcourt whether or not he was already established in the front court. The play was legal.
OK, I am pulling for the Mavs so obviously I am a bit biased. But I am also a huge NBA guy and have seen my team (the Lakers) get plenty of beneficial calls in their championship runs. Game 6 against the Kings being a game that comes to mind. So I no it happens, I understand it happens and that is just the way it is. If you don’t believe it happens, look at the free throw differential between games 1 & 2, and games 3, 4 & 5. In any case, my thoughts:
On the backcourt violation, this is iffy. It’s a tough call to make in that situation. Nine seconds left and the game on the line. In any case, I think both sides could argue and be right, total judgement call.
On the foul, total bs. I have seen guys get butchered at the end of games without a call being made. Wade was getting a ridiculous amount of calls all night, and this was just another case. I can’t remember the last time a game like this was decided by free throws. The refs never make these calls. Wade attacked 3 guys, threw up an absurd shot and got bailed out. Not sure how you can argue against that. Like I said before, the refs have and always will influence games.
On the timeout, this is even worse than the foul call. The refs should have had no problem letting the Mavs call timeout after the free throws. It’s common sense that this is what they want to do, the coach is hollering that this is what they want to do, yet the refs come with some honor bs.
Even with all that said, I still think the Mavs have a good chance of winning this series. They win game 6 at home (where I guarantee you they are going to get all kinds of ridiculous calls) and then they get a game 7 at home. It’s hard to imagine Wade will get the treatment from the refs he got at home (he shot the ball horribly, saved at the free throw line), and Shaq is obviously out of gas.
[quote]larryb wrote:
Right Side Up wrote:
Jumbos10 wrote:
The whole problem is when either Dirk or Dwyane plays at home they get the benefit of the doubt on all calls. I just can’t stand how Dwyane Wade is such a pussy and complains about every damn call and the same with shaq. At least Dirk keeps his mouth shut instead of crying for a foul every time down the floor.
You have got to be kidding me.
Wade is of the same mold as Iverson – an undersized (albeit not nearly small) guard who takes it to the hole hard and often, and takes a beating because of it. He is one of the most tight-lipped stars in the league and has that reputation – which is why I’m surprised at your comments. Dirk, on the other hand seems to do his fair share of bitching…but I love Dirk, I think he’s a phenomenal player and a good personality.
I like Wade, but he does get that annoying crybaby look on his face quite a bit. Of course, the worst ever in the NBA is Mutombo, with the slow head shake on every call against him. If you’re trying to show “bad call” with a facial expression, I think a look of confusion is better for your image.
[/quote]
It’s apparent many of you have seen Wade play a total of 5 games in the two years he’s been in the league.
To top it off, Howard was walking to the bench after he called the time out (2x).
[quote]JohnnyNinja wrote:
Kir Dog wrote:
Regarding the timeout at the end. The refs know better, they should double check with the head coach because everybody in the building knows that the timeout goes after the second free throw, not before it.
The ref has to call it if the player calls it to the ref, he cant double check with the bench / coach. That’s the rule. As I understand it, he did double check with Josh Howard, as in the ref’s words Josh asked him twice to call it. The ref knew, everyone knew, but he can’t make a judgement call like that, it would be the ULTIMATE ref deciding the game type move.[/quote]