T Nation

DUP and Exercise Selection


#1

I am currently on a dup programm inspired by fleck and kraemers book "desgining nonlinear periodization programms"

ITs working quite well but nevertheless i want to change it a bit.The book is good,but it let many questions open-at least in my eyes -especially regarding exercise selection.

I read a lot bout DUP because i like the concept much.
The main sense is to rotate rep schemes-classical 3-5 8-10 and 12-15 reps in a non linear manner to prevent overtraining and achiece longer progress in training.

Although there exists no real recommondation on exercises:

If you design a DUP routine and are also about strength gains in bench-do you use flat benching for all rep zones?
Or would it be good to mix different exercises into the programm for chest and if YES do you use each exercise for a specific rep zone,or do you also rotate the rep zones with each of the exercises?

Sounds bit weird but the differences are really important in my eyes.

Lets take a look on the different options:

Example 1
One exercise:

MO:bench 3x3
WED bench 4x10
Friday bench 2x15
repeat

Example2
3 exercises-each exercise for a rep zone

mo bench 3x3 mo
decline 4x10 wed
incline 2x15 frid
repeat

Example3
3 Exercises- all rep zones used for each:

1.week bench 3x3 decline 4x10 incline 2x15 next week:
2.week bench 4x10 decline 2x15 incline 3x3 next week:
3.week bench 2x15 decline 3x3 incline 4x10
REPEAT

Any experiences or ideas on this one?

thank you,
science


#2

Not to give useless advice or anything, but this program seems too complicated. I can't understand any of it. I think you'd be better off with something more simplistic, like picking a select few exercises for each body part and getting stronger at them.

Its your choice whether you do the program or not, and maybe someone who has done it will chime in, but I honestly believe its too complicated.


#3

Complicated? Was Kraemer involved with Enigma codes or something? Theory is great, but why do you want to change it if "it's working quite well"?

Weren't you also over at IM trying to change the DC template?

The optimal programme is what works for you.


#4

He has a very rare disease preventing him from progressing like normal people do.

So "science", until they invent quadruple-factor training, I guess you're going to be stuck posting about a different routine every 2 weeks...


#5

Well the template works to a different degree,but its difficult to discuss about it,if you have not read the book.

I am not here to make things better but questioning to myself if it could work for me-like you said-the best programm is the one which works for yourself.

My questions are not picked out of nowhere.
The last months -before this template-i tried brawn,5x5 intermediate and advanced version by madcow-long delaods before and long loading periods,but was not able to get a PR.

But if you have not tried DUP yet,it would make no sense in discussing this concept.


#6

Hi there Science,

The research papers that have used the undulating periodization model manipulate one exercise in the manner described (low, medium, high rep range, then reverse order for the next week).

Try to keep it simple. The premise for the majority of Kraemer's work is simplicity; working hard within the appropriate rep range.

If you are wanting to go flat and incline, then you could do each exercise in all 3 workouts (flat barbell and incline DB for example).

Just see how it goes and make small changes after periods of time so you can get an idea of whether its working or not.


#7

Best answer to my thread.
You are the only one who was able to answer my question-i appreciate that GG.

I read some of the papers too and there exists also designs were the "hypertropy day"(accessory) was not rotated-so i was a bit unsure about it.

I thought that the loading could also wave in the same way from week to week so
HLM HLM HLM so to speak.
I have thought that it is important that the load varies regarding the ranges but not also the order of it.

out of your understanding it would be:

HLM MLH LHM

am i right?


#8

Yep.

Basically the premise from their research for the undulating model is to work within slightly different rep ranges each session, and rotate the order from week to week. Their idea is based on findings that the higher end of the rep range (10-12) tends to elicit greater acute hormonal adaptation (increased test levels), while the lower end of the spectrum, while still good for hypertrophy, is also more appropriate for pushing your strength levels along.

It's kind of like trying to get the right balance, and to encourage trainers to work within the rep range that works (4-12RM) rather than just sticking to one particular zone (always 4-6 or always 10-15).


#9

Thanks again GG.

Ok so you stay lets say to a exercise per group and rotate the paramters and if you stall on some lifts you simply switch the exercises-is it thought that way?

Have you ever tried DUP GG?


#10

Depending on your current level, you could look to do 2 or more exercises per muscle group.

Yep, I've been trying a version of it recently and it works quite nicely. Most good programs are just a version of this anyway. Try to take the main principle out of it (rotating your workouts within a rep range) and manipulate it to fit your needs rather than trying to go too much by the book.


#11

Monday
Bench press
Leg press
Seated rows
Lunges
Preacher Curls
Incline Sit Ups

Wednesday
Bench
Leg Press
Lat Pulls
Leg Extensions
Standing calves
back extensions

Friday
Bench
Leg Press
Upright rows
Leg curls
Tricep Extensions
Knee Raises

This program is a DUP model that was published based on "recreationally active" adults.

The rep range they used was a 3x8 day, a 3x6 day, and a 3x4 day.

This is a pretty basic model and I wouldn't advise it for anyone who is more advanced.

If you want to try something like this you could go for a 4 day split, upper and lower days, with one day at the 3x4RM range and the other at the 3x8/10RM range.

Again, try to take the main principle out of what they're advocating, which is don't stagnate in one particular rep range.


#12

Thank you again for your time and constructive post GG-not often seen here.

I thought of running this one for upper body 2xthe week (legs are done 1xthe week cause i still progress with my current programm on them):

decline bench
shoulder press
dip
pull up
t bar row
pronated curl

rotate 3x8-10 2x13-15 3x3-5

I am a bit angry on myself because i once did the art of Waterbury and it really was great.when stalling the first time i switched up exercises but not rotated paramters with them (stalled all the time) so perhaps that was my fault and i needed 2 years to recognize this.(did brawn,5x5 intermediate,advanced in the meantime but no progress-perhaps really because the paramters are that constant on the mentioned programms)
Funny is,that before the DUP programm i tried bill starrs H L M format but with constant reps and only with load variation.(but for the same exercises)
So if 3x8 with 80%of 1rpm was the hard day 3x8 with 70% was medium and 3x8 with 60% the light day.

it didn´t worked

It really seems that it makes difference to vary also the reps for the same exercise and not only the load but remaining the rep scheme...

You think that looks good or should i pump up more the volume?

Thank you last time GG i regret that you have not posted on my thread "stalling on AOW" 2 years ago-i will be some pounds heavier and stronger then.

informational posts are a rarity.


#13

Cheers,

I'm a big believer that most programs will work, its about how hard you push and how well you eat.

For a volume/intensity check, you should be progressing in weights lifted (either squeezing out more reps or lifting heavier) within a week.

If you ain't progressing something is not right.

Good luck with what you're doing.


#14

Thank you again for your time and constructive post GG-not often seen here.

I thought of running this one for upper body 2xthe week (legs are done 1xthe week cause i still progress with my current programm on them):

decline bench
shoulder press
dip
pull up
t bar row
pronated curl

rotate 3x8-10 2x13-15 3x3-5

I am a bit angry on myself because i once did the art of Waterbury and it really was great.when stalling the first time i switched up exercises but not rotated paramters with them (stalled all the time) so perhaps that was my fault and i needed 2 years to recognize this.(did brawn,5x5 intermediate,advanced in the meantime but no progress-perhaps really because the paramters are that constant on the mentioned programms)
Funny is,that before the DUP programm i tried bill starrs H L M format but with constant reps and only with load variation.(but for the same exercises)
So if 3x8 with 80%of 1rpm was the hard day 3x8 with 70% was medium and 3x8 with 60% the light day.

it didn´t worked

It really seems that it makes difference to vary also the reps for the same exercise and not only the load but remaining the rep scheme...

You think that looks good or should i pump up more the volume?

Thank you last time GG i regret that you have not posted on my thread "stalling on AOW" 2 years ago-i will be some pounds heavier and stronger then.

informational posts are a rarity.


#15

thanks gg!