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Dumbell Flys Without Muscle Shortening

It doesn’t seem to matter what I do. As soon as I start working my pecs my shoulders start rounding forward and it takes months, even years to come back to good posture. It’s taken me many years to confirm this.
This is a great shame because I can build muscle very quickly on the pecs, especially with flys and similar lifts.

No amount of stretching seems to really help.

If I continue my shoulders come forward. While I can then be stronger there’s no point visually since rounded shoulders I think just knocks of any of the gains from better pecs.

Any tips?

This post might be better in the training forum but it’s filtered as pornography by my ISP (?!)

Have u tried floor press?

hey man, I noticed you didn’t say anything about your back training? what’s that like?

After I had the shoulder problem I dropped chest training completely and went heavy on the back. At that point the back stuff only was:

  • pullups
  • lower cable rows
  • upper cable rows
  • I guess you call them, reverse flys?
  • hyperextensions

It took a year or 2 of just back work with no chest training at all for the shoulders to come back into position.

After that for the last 2 years I haven’t really been training. It’s just because a really unpredictable work schedule broke my gym routine. So it’s been just the odd pullups from time to time and various cardio when I remember - shocking.

I want to get back into it but this time looking to spend less time and also my goals are very different. Before I was all about looks whereas now I’m more interested in strength for when I’m at work or for sport.

The thing is that for me the vanity was a big motivator in the past. Not being able to work the chest puts a big damper on training.

I want to try high cable rows with dumbell flys and stretching but I’m afraid of the shoulders coming forward - it happens so quickly I’m beginning to think I might be better to avoid direct chest training, instead change to a job that allows me to go for a morning surf each day

I’ll check out the barbell floor press - like it. Perhaps the shoulder support might help.

edit:

Offtopic but…

Actually I should say that I’ve had other things to think about than training. For one, learning a lot about diet - sorting out piles (could be cancerous for all the testing I’ve managed to get out of the NHS), and avoiding sugar which seems to be effecting blood circulation to my extremities to the point that if I surf in cold water my toes go white which didn’t before. Docs say it’s just getting older. I notice that it’s sugar related even though testing showed no excess above “8” on those insulin meters. Learnt a heck of a lot about everything outside the exercise realm which catalyses it. But this time when I continue with it I want to do it in a way that maintains posture, more careful etc. Older and wiser or just lazy and cautious I don’t know.

ah, just what the doctor ordered:

How do I adapt this to the shoulders?

Tried the floor press. Amazingly even this had a shortening effect.

^^ haha, just a few days before that was an article called ‘foam rolling is for wimps’. Soon they’ll be a ‘mobility drills are a waste of time’ and so on.

What actually works? That’s what I want to know - I’ve been doing mobility drills, static stretching, foam rolling, PNF stretching, muscle activation drills for years, I’ve got no change in ROM across any of my joints to show for it.

alternate:

I’d like to try all those things for shoulders. Got any links on how to do them for shoulders?

One thing I can tell you did work for me was letting my chest atrophy!

A new line of thought - I reckon the shoulder itself is too weak - need to make the support around it stronger.

Another thing relevent? Heal that hunchback article?

Just posted this on another thread, add her efor reference:


Similar problem to me.

I think it could be that the shoulder itself is too weak and so and so any shortening in the muscle in the chest has a greater effect.

It’s been a very slow progress figuring it all out. It took me 2 years for my chest to get weak enough and the back to get stronger to slowly put the shoulders back.

I have a thread here:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/jago25_98#myForums/thread/5487359/

I want to combine:


and

The question is how do we apply what is written there to the shoulder?

Another thing to try is ARTs manipulation.
I wonder if Chinese massage by an expert rather than a quack might be a cheap thing to investigate - I have been very impressed and unimpressed with Chinese masseurs. One guy gave me the impression he had been studying for many years… one women… well… she wasn’t quite what I expected!

Let’s swap notes on what we find. Please reply on my thread as we have more activity there. This one might run for years but we’ll get there in the end

Cheers

-j