T Nation

Dumb Needle Question

Quick question

Are there any brands that make 1" needles on an insulin syringe? I’ve only found .5" needles while searching. Is that the longest needle size available? 5/8" would be ok too.

I can use .5" inch on my delts if I need to, but 1" would provide some peace of mind.

do you have to have an already attached needle? I can show you where to get 1ml barrels, that fit with any needles.

If (I don’t know) the 1 mL barrel is not as narrow-diameter as the barrel of an insulin syringe, then it is going to be extremely hard to press even with a half-inch needle. A one-inch needle would make it twice as hard yet to press.

In other words, even if the barrel is just as narrow in diameter as that of an insulin syringe, a 1 inch needle would make it quite hard to push oil through. Not impossible but twice as hard as usual anyway.

The 1/2 inch depth is plenty for a 1 mL injection.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If (I don’t know) the 1 mL barrel is not as narrow-diameter as the barrel of an insulin syringe, then it is going to be extremely hard to press even with a half-inch needle. A one-inch needle would make it twice as hard yet to press.

In other words, even if the barrel is just as narrow in diameter as that of an insulin syringe, a 1 inch needle would make it quite hard to push oil through. Not impossible but twice as hard as usual anyway.

The 1/2 inch depth is plenty for a 1 mL injection.[/quote]

Thanks I’ll keep that in mind.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If (I don’t know) the 1 mL barrel is not as narrow-diameter as the barrel of an insulin syringe, then it is going to be extremely hard to press even with a half-inch needle. A one-inch needle would make it twice as hard yet to press.

In other words, even if the barrel is just as narrow in diameter as that of an insulin syringe, a 1 inch needle would make it quite hard to push oil through. Not impossible but twice as hard as usual anyway.

The 1/2 inch depth is plenty for a 1 mL injection.[/quote]

Bill, when you say that, do you mean strictly for delts or other too? Just want to clarify.

Thanks.

Anywhere that there isn’t a substantive layer of blubber to go through and where the volume is only 1 mL.

I searched hi and low in the past, and so far as I can tell, no company manufactures a 1" insulin syringe. I don’t see why there would be, as insulin is shot SC.

The inside diameter of a 1cc insulin syringe(Terumo) and a 1ml luer slip Tuberculin syringe(Exel) are in fact identical.

I find it extremely easy to inject using the Tuberculin syringe with a 1 1/4" 27 Gauge needle. Exel makes a 1" 30 Gauge needle. Given my experiences with the 27 Gauge, I have considered trying this needle.

[quote]W.H.B. wrote:
I searched hi and low in the past, and so far as I can tell, no company manufactures a 1" insulin syringe. I don’t see why there would be, as insulin is shot SC.

The inside diameter of a 1cc insulin syringe(Terumo) and a 1ml luer slip Tuberculin syringe(Exel) are in fact identical.

I find it extremely easy to inject using the Tuberculin syringe with a 1 1/4" 27 Gauge needle. Exel makes a 1" 30 Gauge needle. Given my experiences with the 27 Gauge, I have considered trying this needle.[/quote]

Yea I came across the Tuberculin syringes last night. I’ll consider that option also. Thanks.

[quote]W.H.B. wrote:
I searched hi and low in the past, and so far as I can tell, no company manufactures a 1" insulin syringe. I don’t see why there would be, as insulin is shot SC.

The inside diameter of a 1cc insulin syringe(Terumo) and a 1ml luer slip Tuberculin syringe(Exel) are in fact identical.

I find it extremely easy to inject using the Tuberculin syringe with a 1 1/4" 27 Gauge needle. Exel makes a 1" 30 Gauge needle. Given my experiences with the 27 Gauge, I have considered trying this needle.[/quote]

27 gauge…I use 1.5 inch 22.5 gauge for VG and glutes and 1 inch 23 gauge for everywhere else. Do you have to heat the oil first to get it through the 27 gauge?

Not trying to threadjack, sorry Bonez

Wow! I don’t use anything larger than a 25 Gauge for anything. No, I do not heat my oil for any injections.

It is much easier to push through a 27 Gauge with a 1 mL barrel, but I have successfully used a 3 mL barrel with the 27 Gauge many times. Sure, it may take a little longer and warm oil will help, but I don’t find it necessary.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Anywhere that there isn’t a substantive layer of blubber to go through and where the volume is only 1 mL.[/quote]

Makes good sense, thanks Bill.

Bonez - i can help you with any type of needle, barrel or other works.

Usual place of contact.

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But when talking the SAME diameter, which I was, twice the length does mean twice the resistance for same flow rate.

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The pressure drop is per unit length for a given flow rate.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
But when talking the SAME diameter, which I was, twice the length does mean twice the resistance for same flow rate.

No I’m not sure it does. Can you back that up with any info please because I would like to know for sure.

I’m just trying to imagine an oil pipeline stretching for hundreds of miles. If what you say is tru, there would need to be increadible pumping force at the head and propable failure of the seals at that end.

If you look at a flow restrictor, it is just a narrow, short diameter fitting. It is the initial diameter which limits peak flow. Subsequent length of pipe doesn’t affect it linearly.

BBB[/quote]

Yes, as KSman said, each half-inch (or whatever amount) of needle length requires the same pressure drop for the same flow rate.

E.g., let’s say that to get the flow rate I want from a half inch 29 gauge insulin syringe I press on the plunger with 20 lb of force. (I don’t know how much force I use. That could be a bad guess.) And let’s say the plunger area is 1/50th of a square inch (also I don’t know if that is a good guess.) So let’s say for the sake of discussion it takes a 1000 psi pressure differential between the oil in the syringe body and the exit of the needle to get the flow rate I want through that half inch.

If there were a second half inch attached, to get the flow rate I want through that half inch would likewise require a 1000 psi differential between its beginning and end. It doesn’t “know” whether there is a syringe body before it, or a length of needle before it.

So with the second half inch requiring a 1000 psi differential and the first half inch also requiring a 1000 psi differential, a total 2000 psi differential is now needed.

On the pipeline question: First, I think but am not sure that there are pumping stations along the way to re-boost pressure. Second, as you say diameter is more important than length.

E.g., a 25 gauge one inch needle attached to a insulin-sized syringe would require much LESS pressure than a half-inch 29 gauge needle. For this reason, a much larger syringe barrel size can be used for similar thumb pressure and equal or faster flow rate.

[quote]W.H.B. wrote:
Wow! I don’t use anything larger than a 25 Gauge for anything. No, I do not heat my oil for any injections.

It is much easier to push through a 27 Gauge with a 1 mL barrel, but I have successfully used a 3 mL barrel with the 27 Gauge many times. Sure, it may take a little longer and warm oil will help, but I don’t find it necessary.[/quote]

I just got some 26 gauge and did an injection with my biceps and it is so much better than 23 gauge…wish I had of started using them earlier lol!

Bill and BBB I am an engineer and I never thought I would see fluid mechanics being applied to injections haha…I like this!

I am surprised you guys haven’t brought up frictional force (in this case kinetic friction) yet :slight_smile:

[quote]juice82 wrote:
W.H.B. wrote:
Wow! I don’t use anything larger than a 25 Gauge for anything. No, I do not heat my oil for any injections.

It is much easier to push through a 27 Gauge with a 1 mL barrel, but I have successfully used a 3 mL barrel with the 27 Gauge many times. Sure, it may take a little longer and warm oil will help, but I don’t find it necessary.

I just got some 26 gauge and did an injection with my biceps and it is so much better than 23 gauge…wish I had of started using them earlier lol!

Bill and BBB I am an engineer and I never thought I would see fluid mechanics being applied to injections haha…I like this!

I am surprised you guys haven’t brought up frictional force (in this case kinetic friction) yet :)[/quote]

Yeah, I draw with a 23 Gauge. One of the few cases where smaller is better. Ha!

You know, I’m not sure you are 100% accurate Bill. If you were only speaking of the needle, I believe you would be right. We are, however, talking about a complete system. This system involves two pipes of different diameters and lengths, where the second pipe, the needle, represents only a fraction of the total length of the system.

While I do believe it would be slightly more difficult to push through a needle that is the same diameter, yet twice as long, I do not believe it would be twice as hard, when speaking of hand/finger force applied.

My fluid mechanics is rusty, maybe you could help juice82, but I believe, along with a little home experimentation and guesstimation, you could apply Bernoulli’s Equation to figure this out. I don’t believe friction would be a necessary evil for our purposes and could be negated.

Maybe I’ll try it later to see what I can come up with.

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