T Nation

Drugs just the finishing touch?


#1

Bob Chic once said "drugs are just the finishing touch."

I think this was true for the old days. What about now? Thoughts?


#2

I suppose it could be seen that way. Take a world class natural who has their training and nutrition figured out, put them on cycle, and you’ll most likely have a world class drugged pro.

Take a person with poor symmetry, bad shape, and no idea what they’re doing in the gym or kitchen, and he’ll still probably never go anywhere in the sport.

But then on the other side of the coin, a natural lifter has no chance whatsoever of winning against drugged lifters, so it could also be seen as a foundational aspect of the sport right along with genetics, nutrition, and training. That’s the way I see it, personally.

Water and carb manipulation, tanning, posing, etc are finishing touches. Drugs are part of the foundation to success.


#3

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I suppose it could be seen that way. Take a world class natural who has their training and nutrition figured out, put them on cycle, and you’ll most likely have a world class drugged pro.

Take a person with poor symmetry, bad shape, and no idea what they’re doing in the gym or kitchen, and he’ll still probably never go anywhere in the sport.

But then on the other side of the coin, a natural lifter has no chance whatsoever of winning against drugged lifters, so it could also be seen as a foundational aspect of the sport right along with genetics, nutrition, and training. That’s the way I see it, personally.

Water and carb manipulation, tanning, posing, etc are finishing touches. Drugs are part of the foundation to success. [/quote]

Well said.


#4

Let’s put things in perspective. Any drug, regardless of what amount, that affords a competitor the potential to exceed his natural limit would not be a “finishing touch”. It would be the most important aspect of the sport.

HOWEVER, when idiots read something like this, they interpret the word “potential” to mean “drugs build the muscle for you”, so hopefully, this discussion doesn’t go into that direction.


#5

drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.


#6

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.[/quote]

In the current day, I think you can do it… depending on what important people like you. :slight_smile:

There are pros today who would not be able to be so in the 90’s and early 2000’s.


#7

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.
[/quote]

Yeah I think they need to go hand in hand or we’ll end up with a bunch of Bostin Lyods.


#8

Genetics are definitely king. Drugs just enhance what you were already gifted with.


#9

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.[/quote]

In the current day, I think you can do it… depending on what important people like you. :slight_smile:

There are pros today who would not be able to be so in the 90’s and early 2000’s. [/quote]

getting a little jaded with the current state of professional bodybuilding, Brick?


#10

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.
[/quote]

Yeah I think they need to go hand in hand or we’ll end up with a bunch of Bostin Lyods.[/quote]

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Genetics are definitely king. Drugs just enhance what you were already gifted with.[/quote]

my thoughts exactly


#11

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.[/quote]

In the current day, I think you can do it… depending on what important people like you. :slight_smile:

There are pros today who would not be able to be so in the 90’s and early 2000’s. [/quote]

getting a little jaded with the current state of professional bodybuilding, Brick?[/quote]

Yup, hence why I rather follow physique now.


#12

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Genetics are definitely king. Drugs just enhance what you were already gifted with.[/quote]

A better way of putting it would be to say drugs massively enhance what natural genetics you have…hence no genetically superior body builder that is truly natural is going to build a better body than some one who puts in the hard work and supplements it with a massive amounts of drugs.


#13

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.[/quote]

In the current day, I think you can do it… depending on what important people like you. :slight_smile:

There are pros today who would not be able to be so in the 90’s and early 2000’s. [/quote]

getting a little jaded with the current state of professional bodybuilding, Brick?[/quote]

Yup, hence why I rather follow physique now. [/quote]

Because they don’t use???


#14

amazing genetics. very few people in the world could blow up like compton did in such short time even if they were to take more than him.


#15

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
drugs are awesome, but genetics will always be king.

I couldn’t be an IFBB pro no matter how much gear I used.[/quote]

In the current day, I think you can do it… depending on what important people like you. :slight_smile:

There are pros today who would not be able to be so in the 90’s and early 2000’s. [/quote]

getting a little jaded with the current state of professional bodybuilding, Brick?[/quote]

Yup, hence why I rather follow physique now. [/quote]

Because they don’t use???
[/quote]

Of course they use. I have an IFBB pro friend who competes in physique, so I get a bit about the inside scoop. I think the IFBB physique guys and some of the NPC and natural ones look phenomenal.


#16

[quote]tredaway wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Genetics are definitely king. Drugs just enhance what you were already gifted with.[/quote]

A better way of putting it would be to say drugs massively enhance what natural genetics you have…hence no genetically superior body builder that is truly natural is going to build a better body than some one who puts in the hard work and supplements it with a massive amounts of drugs.[/quote]

Well of course! But for the realm of pro bodybuilding the divider is genetics. Everyone has the same drugs and access at that level.


#17

You’re not even in the game without drugs. How can they then just be polish? You can be as genetically gifted as you like but without assistance… So they go hand in hand.

I think for the average Joe, they’d get significantly better results assisted.


#18

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Water and carb manipulation, tanning, posing, etc are finishing touches. Drugs are part of the foundation to success. [/quote]

I’d say that more accurately describes the situation.


#19

Bob Chic says a lot of dumb things


#20

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Take a world class natural who has their training and nutrition figured out, put them on cycle, and you’ll most likely have a world class drugged pro.[/quote]
Getting that world class natural body in the first place is where I think a lot of guys stumble. To paraphrase Dave Tate’s analogy: The earlier a guy “has to” flip that ace card/start AAS to get to the next level, the less likely he’s going to go very far in the sport. (Um, except Arnold). That certainly seemed to be the attitude of many guys back in the day.

Tom Platz has a quote going around, from an interview he did in Ironman mag in the '80s:
"It’s like waxing a car. When you wax your car - when I wax my Corvette - it looks much better. In a car show, the wax job make wouldn’t give the Corvette sexy lines, but would make it look better. It wouldn’t create the inherent car.

The same with steroids. Steroids don’t create champions. They’re not responsible for my success or anyone else’s. But they do help. They do finish the product. That little bit of finish is important in winning or losing."

And from Robby Robinson…

[quote]T-Nation: […] Were there any successful pros in your era who competed without any anabolics?

Robby Robinson: That’s a good question. When I look back on it, no, I think we all had the same position. Everybody was basically on the same anabolics. You would take Deca and a capsule of B-12 intravenously every two weeks. That was the normal way of doing things. You’d go from 90 days out, every two weeks.

Everybody was using it. We didn’t think there were other things to take. When I first started training with Arnold and them, to be honest, I didn’t even know steroids existed. Nobody had ever brought it up to me. “Okay, use this and use that, now take this.”

And then, about two weeks before the Mr. World, an older guy at the gym came up to me and said, “Well, Robby, what are you taking?” I said, “Nothing.” He said, “Come back this afternoon.”

I couldn’t even get angry because it was like, “Okay, now you learned about something different. It’s a whole new part of bodybuilding. A whole new world you’re going into.” So you listen. I went back that afternoon and the guy gave me what I think was 100 milligrams of Durabolin-50 or Primobolan Depot. That’s what I remember out of that.
[…]
T-Nation: But you can’t attribute all your success to drugs.

Robby: I think if you’re going to use it, the better shape you’re in, the better return you’ll get. I was there with a great physique, good genetics, and a great team of people to work with and be around. That’s like a drug by itself.[/quote]
From Dave Draper…

[quote]T-Nation: Actually, I know you’re solidly against steroid use for recreational lifters. You’ve also written that you were 235 pounds and had already won Mr. America before you started taking them with a doctor’s supervision. In your day, what did a cycle consist of?

Dave Draper: Between 1965 and 1970, a reasonable outline would consist of a 12-week cycle of Durabolin injectable, one cc per week, plus Winstrol, Anavar, or Dianabol in pill form, four to six tabs a day.

Levels would be higher or lower according to results, need, or the rascal’s daring, ignorance, desperation, ingredient availability, mood, and so forth. Every six weeks during the non-competition season, a short and light cycle might be engaged to sustain muscle and strength.[/quote]