T Nation

Drs Ask Columbia University To Fire Dr. Oz


#1

https://www.yahoo.com/health/group-of-doctors-asks-columbia-university-to-fire-116580311342.html

I'm always amused when respected Doctors and experts in the industry take serious issue with a surgeon taking advantage of his fame and basically exploiting most people's desire for cure-alls. When he got grilled at that govt hearing last year, his attempts to defend his beliefs in products with absolutely no scientific evidence supporting them was both patheic and comical at the same time.

S


#2

I understand the “conflicts” and disdain for “evidence-based medicine” charges–I agree these faults probably should disqualify him from being on the faculty at a prestigious medical school–but the charge for “baseless and relentless opposition to the genetic engineering of food crops” charge seems out of place in a letter like that.


#3

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I understand the “conflicts” and disdain for “evidence-based medicine” charges–I agree these faults probably should disqualify him from being on the faculty at a prestigious medical school–but the charge for “baseless and relentless opposition to the genetic engineering of food crops” charge seems out of place in a letter like that.
[/quote]

x2

I would support removal of Oz from the faculty, though. His television shilling of products with questionable or no evidence is certainly conduct unbecoming of someone occupying a prestigious faculty position.

Another thing that I’ll just file into the “mildly amusing” category: I work in a hospital alongside physicians, including cardiothoracic surgeons and cardiologists.

Their subject-matter knowledge in diagnosing and treating patients with acute disease and complications is fabulous. Truly, I mean that.

But they (as a whole) are absolutely not particularly knowledgeable in dispensing advice regarding nutrition or supplementation. I’ve been quite dismayed to hear and see the dietary habits and beliefs many of them hold towards nutrition. Lots of outdated conventional-wisdom stuff, and dashes of “what-the-hell” stuff (I see a lot of physicians drinking regular Mountain Dew, for example).


#4

Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony.


#5

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I understand the “conflicts” and disdain for “evidence-based medicine” charges–I agree these faults probably should disqualify him from being on the faculty at a prestigious medical school–but the charge for “baseless and relentless opposition to the genetic engineering of food crops” charge seems out of place in a letter like that.
[/quote]

x2

I would support removal of Oz from the faculty, though. His television shilling of products with questionable or no evidence is certainly conduct unbecoming of someone occupying a prestigious faculty position.

Another thing that I’ll just file into the “mildly amusing” category: I work in a hospital alongside physicians, including cardiothoracic surgeons and cardiologists.

Their subject-matter knowledge in diagnosing and treating patients with acute disease and complications is fabulous. Truly, I mean that.

But they (as a whole) are absolutely not particularly knowledgeable in dispensing advice regarding nutrition or supplementation. I’ve been quite dismayed to hear and see the dietary habits and beliefs many of them hold towards nutrition. Lots of outdated conventional-wisdom stuff, and dashes of “what-the-hell” stuff (I see a lot of physicians drinking regular Mountain Dew, for example).[/quote]

Amen to that last part. I’m only 19, but I’ve received my fair share of ridiculous nutrition/wellness advice from physicians. E.g. stop gaining weight (I was 150lbs at 5’9"), you better not stop lifting or your muscle will turn to fat, and much more.

Physicians receive way to much credibility just because they have a doctorate degree. All they know is what they have been taught. That’s how I try to view physicians’ advice. Especially in the nutrition and supplementation field. There is a general lack of evidence supporting good or bad things about various diets, foods, and supplements, and you get these physicians advocating one thing because that’s the viewpoint they were taught. If you ask for evidence to back it up, there is none.


#6

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony. [/quote]

x2

He really drives me crazy mainly because my mom watches his show all the time and then buys the various products he advertises. I try to show her the light, but she just can’t help herself. I guess it’s the promise of a quick fix that gets people. I know I’ve almost bought into various miracle supplements in the past, luckily I know a little better now.


#7

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Lots of outdated conventional-wisdom stuff, and dashes of “what-the-hell” stuff (I see a lot of physicians drinking regular Mountain Dew, for example).[/quote]

I know doctors who smoke, for Christ’s sake. At they end of the day doctors are just people who all have same character flaws as the rest of us.


#8

It’s a multifaceted issue IMO. People tend to put MDs on a pedestal with respect to being know-alls, and people are comfortable asking them questions due to the patient-doctor relationship and the privacy found therein. Most MDs and future MDs I’ve met are very compassionate people and have a strong desire to help people, and feel obligated to give an answer, even if it might not be the best one.

So to me, it basically comes down to some MDs not having enough humility to say that they don’t know, but also combine that with the patient not having confidence in their physician, which would be a career-killer, and not a positive outcome if the patient ever needs more serious care and has doubts about the actual expertise of their physician when they simply went into an area that their physician isn’t knowledgeable.
Until people remove the know-all façade that they have of their doctor, these things will continue to happen


#9

Physician, heal THYSELF!


#10

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Lots of outdated conventional-wisdom stuff, and dashes of “what-the-hell” stuff (I see a lot of physicians drinking regular Mountain Dew, for example).[/quote]

I know doctors who smoke, for Christ’s sake. At they end of the day doctors are just people who all have same character flaws as the rest of us. [/quote]

I used to work in a hospital years ago, and it was no surprise to find surgeons smoking in the designated smoking areas outside. Add to that nurses who are nearly obese.


#11

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
It’s a multifaceted issue IMO. People tend to put MDs on a pedestal with respect to being know-alls, and people are comfortable asking them questions due to the patient-doctor relationship and the privacy found therein. Most MDs and future MDs I’ve met are very compassionate people and have a strong desire to help people, and feel obligated to give an answer, even if it might not be the best one.
[/quote]

I want to re-iterate this, because my post came off more negatively towards MD’s than intended. You are absolutely correct that most of the MD’s I have met are very passionate about helping people. And what bothers me is partly this…

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
So to me, it basically comes down to some MDs not having enough humility to say that they don’t know…[/quote]

…but even more when an MD actively uses their status as “Doctor” to promote something that would otherwise be dismissed as quackery. Basically, Dr. Oz going on a TV show and saying the Idaho ragweed is a miracle for weight loss is 9,000 times worse than walking into the hospital cafeteria and seeing Cardiologist X with a Mountain Dew and fries.

Point being, I didn’t mean to be negative about MD’s in general, moreso the specifics of doctors like Dr. Oz that go out of their way to promote questionable or nonsense “advice” for personal gain that they are either a) ill-informed about or b) well-informed but intentionally deceptive about.

I think I made that point rather clumsily. My bad.


#12

Im just waiting to hear from the Eyedentist on this subject


#13

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Im just waiting to hear from the Eyedentist on this subject[/quote]

I’m awaiting the ToothOptometrist.


#14

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
It’s a multifaceted issue IMO. People tend to put MDs on a pedestal with respect to being know-alls, and people are comfortable asking them questions due to the patient-doctor relationship and the privacy found therein. Most MDs and future MDs I’ve met are very compassionate people and have a strong desire to help people, and feel obligated to give an answer, even if it might not be the best one.
[/quote]

I want to re-iterate this, because my post came off more negatively towards MD’s than intended. You are absolutely correct that most of the MD’s I have met are very passionate about helping people. And what bothers me is partly this…

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
So to me, it basically comes down to some MDs not having enough humility to say that they don’t know…[/quote]

…but even more when an MD actively uses their status as “Doctor” to promote something that would otherwise be dismissed as quackery. Basically, Dr. Oz going on a TV show and saying the Idaho ragweed is a miracle for weight loss is 9,000 times worse than walking into the hospital cafeteria and seeing Cardiologist X with a Mountain Dew and fries.

Point being, I didn’t mean to be negative about MD’s in general, moreso the specifics of doctors like Dr. Oz that go out of their way to promote questionable or nonsense “advice” for personal gain that they are either a) ill-informed about or b) well-informed but intentionally deceptive about.

I think I made that point rather clumsily. My bad.[/quote]

I understood your point and agree, I just thought I would add my two cents. My gf is second year med, and like others have said, you see the same kind of general demographics as the regular population. Interestingly, and not sure if this is just her class, but many of them are excellent at playing a variety of instruments.

The fact that people can’t see through Oz’s bullshit is him taking advantage of an ignorant and uninformed population. Pretty much any doctor that is associated with Oprah or has a tv show is bullshit to me. Not saying they can’t give good advice (sometimes), but I always question advice especially when it directs me to spend money on certain products. Many just want a quick 'n easy fix for their problems, and spin their wheels in laziness.


#15

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony. [/quote]

Easy there Mr. Caulfield.


#16

As a future MD, I hold a BS in Nutritional Science. I chose this path because I know the lack of nutritional content many MD schools have in their curriculum. Some schools have dedicated classes on it, other schools have 1 lecture, and that’s it. On that note, many MDs have the intelligence and ambition to study this stuff on their own, reading primary literature (EyeDentist) and are very respectable and knowledgeable. The problem is that the public sees every MD in this light, and many MDs feel that they are qualified to give advice.

As far as Dr. Oz, it’s astonishing that he will put his name behind any product that is not backed by solid, primary literature. I have no doubt that he has the ability to be well-informed on these products… but money is cool. Should he be banned from his position at Columbia? Not at all, if his teachings are not affecting the students he has influence on, or if he is still performing his surgical duties as expected. I don’t believe his show is harming his practice, although I can’t agree with his views.


#17

https://www.yahoo.com/health/dr-oz-defends-medical-advice-after-peers-call-for-116580311342.html


#18

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony. [/quote]

Maybe on sups…but this is no joke IMO.

Oz was (and still is) one of the most sought-after cardiothoracic surgeons in the country, practicing at New York City’s prestigious New York-Presbyterian Hospital.


#19

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony. [/quote]

Maybe on sups…but this is no joke IMO.

Oz was (and still is) one of the most sought-after cardiothoracic surgeons in the country, practicing at New York City’s prestigious New York-Presbyterian Hospital.
[/quote]

This is where I think people get riled. The guy may be the best of the best in his area of specialty, but the fact that people view him as a “doctor”, and tend to assume his word carries more weight than anyone in any subject area that could be considered medically related, he’s doling out advice that he has no business doing. He knows full well how much weight his OPINION carries with the general public, even if it flies in the face of all known scientific evidence.

S


#20

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can’t stand Dr. Oz, dude is such a phony. [/quote]

Maybe on sups…but this is no joke IMO.

Oz was (and still is) one of the most sought-after cardiothoracic surgeons in the country, practicing at New York City’s prestigious New York-Presbyterian Hospital.
[/quote]

This is where I think people get riled. The guy may be the best of the best in his area of specialty, but the fact that people view him as a “doctor”, and tend to assume his word carries more weight than anyone in any subject area that could be considered medically related, he’s doling out advice that he has no business doing. He knows full well how much weight his OPINION carries with the general public, even if it flies in the face of all known scientific evidence.

S[/quote]

Don’t disagree big Stu, but there are people who are not top 1% cardiothoracic surgeons who are peddling the same way. I would be interested to see his opinion on heart attacks caused by inflammation vs. cholesterol.