T Nation

Dropping My Dose was an Epic Failure

If you’ve read any of my recent threads, been talking to a couple neuroendos about pituitary tumor treatment options. Both really stressed that my E2 is likely driving my prolactin from barely elevated to a point where it’s causing symptoms.

Obviously I can do what I want, but I was offered 3 options. Go on anastrozole and see if it lowers prolactin (no thanks), lower my T dose, or quit TRT and have the tumor removed surgically. I decided lowering my dose would be the easiest to try, and the easiest to revert if I didn’t like the results.

Came up with a plan to start at 100mg/week and work up every 3 weeks, until sexual function diminishes (ie prolactin goes up).

I made it a whopping 5 days until I was seriously questioning my ability to perform the basics of my job anymore, get out of bed, and my will to live. No thanks. Thank god I had some T prop around still to quickly raise things up again. 12 hours later I’m feeling at least functional.

Is this just how it goes lowering your dose? When I originally went from 210 to 154 months ago, I remember feeling way better within a week. Not horrendous like this time. Yikes.

What about bromocriptine? Not in the cards to try it out? Dr Seranno recommends it over cabergoline.

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There is a huge difference between 154 and 100, much bigger than 210 to 154. You are simply not high enough on 100 mg, but 154 was. 50 would probably feel the same as 100. For you.

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Tried it, barely did anything but make me so tired I couldn’t move from my bed.

Apparently they have quinagolide in Canada now, I’m going to see if I can get my hands on that. It’s not an ergoline derivative, and I’ve heard positive things. Just might not be as strong as caber but for me that’s a positive.

I’ve considered this, but even when I went from 140 to 168, I felt noticeably better…minus losing some sexual function. I have a funny feeling the prolactin is the issue. Even if I were a believer in E2 problems mine barely touches 40 by the time the problems begin.

And you’ve tried going much higher with your T dose? I worked with a guy that had this issue and Dr Serrano helped me. In his case he brought his T dose up considerably and prolactin ended up going down.

If you’ve seen my recent threads, I’ve been battling with some libido issues (primarily) and have had issues reaching orgasm.

Well, the night before this test, I took three Cialis in about 24-48 hours, went limp during sex, and was barely thinking about it at all either. Been on 150mg/week lately, after having my last blood test come back on the high side.

Before I spill the beans, here are 2 other results I had while on 150mg/week:
Sept 2019: ~720 TT/30 FT/30 E2 (11am)
Dec 2019: ~980 TT/45 FT/40 E2 (8-9am)

The only big difference here was doing the test around 1pm instead of my usual morning tests. But I didn’t think T cyp metabolized this quickly!

TT: 602
FT: 14.9
E2: 24
Prolactin: 25.7 (which likely means I’m at around 8 with macroprolactin removed, usually about 70% for me)
IGF1: 190 (dr was concerned as last tests showed it way too high)

Is my body burning up T cyp that quickly? Any other thoughts? Doctor is pleased that I now have “normal” T levels but honestly I felt better around 800 (but worse over 1000).

I don’t recall any other threads, but have you had your thyroid checked? On between 120-140mg a week, I was around TT - 690s and E2 -25.

I was sub clinical hypo thyroid and introduced armour thyroid. About 4-6 months after at the same 140mg a week, my TT was 1192 and E2 - 41. Had a really good libido too.

I think a body doesn’t use the T as well as it could with an ill performing thyroid.

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I have a few thoughts, not nice ones though. If your doc is happy with a Free T at 14.9 when you say you feel better higher, damn dude you need a new doc!

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I have! Multiple times actually. My TSH fluctuates a bit but stays around 1.5-2.5. Dr Saya pulled the other relevant labs and it came back fine.

Oh man, that’s the weird thing. The fluctuating levels on the same dose! Defy has my script so I can go up to 210mg (200 plus dead space) but I tried that and felt pretty uncomfortable.

Is it possible I’m injecting in a poor manner? I do subq daily, alternate sides, and go anywhere from probably 3-8” from my belly button. Typically further lately (so closer to my sides than front) as I seem to hit a lot fewer nerves.

It is very different man for everyone. On 20mg and 100ui daily Im on 1450 and free t and e2 in the sky :smiley:

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So true.

I definitely tend to turn lower numbers at a given dose.

The two times it’s come up high for a given dose have been either a few weeks after HCG or a few weeks after a “loading” dose of cyp after stopping prop.

Either way this might explain how I’ve felt decent but my libido has been in the shitter! Easier to fix than prolactin too

Dont know man, your case is complicated but I also think you havent come to the right doctor yet

Go with EOD IM shots. Subq is not working for ya. Also, are you drinking hard liquor or beer in large quantities on the daily? Are you exercising? As for libido, Ive been edging 2 days in a row, and treat my brain to an orgasm via sex or masturbation on the 3rd day. If youre jacking off everyday, it can be an issue for some guys. And use your imagination too. No porn!

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Is this a common sign subq isn’t working? I mean, it’s clearly absorbing.

Gave up drinking at the new year, it’s caused too many problems with TRT. So far so good.

Working out 4-5x a week, either lifting or cardio or both. Took a 2 week break recently though.

Then the problem is Nitric Oxide. Get some Citrulline and eat watermelon. And go IM. I havent tried Subq. But doesnt seem like my body would react the same to it.

I did daily sub-q for 8 months and didn’t feel like it was doing anything. Got bloods tested and I was at 2000 total T. Switched to daily IM and it made a world of difference. Not a fan of sub-q personally as I just don’t feel it like I do with IM.

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Where do you inject? I’d be willing to try it but I know relatively little about IM.

As I recall your previous post several times you have stated sub q worked as good as IN for you