Drew Baye Wins Over 50

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

My ilk?
What is MY ILK? :thinking::joy:
Just for reference sake, I’ve been quite supportive of your views in the past. I’ve stated that I support your viewpoint on cardio and practice it myself.
So my ilk would be your ilk also.
I have no preference either way, whether or not you post your views, in fact when “lurking” I find it quite entertaining when the ensuing online arguments erupt between yourself and those who do have issues with what you are saying.
I just thought that you had had enough of the “stress” that those online “debates” can bring, especially, as they always seem to go round in circles.
But if not, hey ho, crack on…I’ll go and get me some popcorn…

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I have to admit I had to look that up. My only defence being english is not my first language. Next up is to trace the origin of the word.

In regards to Ventilatory Threshold 1cardio training. This could be another thread, but this is available. Peter Attia seems pretty staunch regarding level 2 being necessary, a lot of it. However less level 5 of course which I assume would be more of a HIIT approach. He puts a lot of time on his cardio work, seemingly at level 2.

I posted this, maybe on my log, concerning the “new level system” and Kenneth Cooper’s “Cooper Point” system starting in the 1960s based on Cooper’s work with Air Force personnel. Cooper’s system acquired weekly/monthly points with 120 pts a month being ideal. Cooper picked jogging as the best exercise, but I think backed off, citing in later books rope skipping and/or riding an Airdyne being more efficient.

In my personal experience, in my teens and 20s the Nautilus and Soloflex circuits kept me strong and seemingly (looking back) fit cardiovascularly. Now 40 years later, I have to add some type cardiovascular approach. HIT (in its various forms) still makes me strong, more so than volume. But if I do not pay attention to cardio, the day arrives when I huff and suck wind. Walking through Walmart becomes the Run Across the Sahara super-duper marathon.

I am all for HIT, but even walking 18 holes helps out.

Edit: I should apologize. This is about Drew Baye winning his division at the Daytona NPC. This is not about me sucking wind in Walmart. He worked hard pre-contest, and the results showed in the end. I do hope to see him continue competing, regardless of how he prepares. I know he is disliked by some, he can be brash, combative over what he believes, but he sticks with it. He has placed, and won, in two competitions in the last six months or so. not everyone does, but I have to admire that.

Interesting. In the past year or so, I’ve moved toward a hybrid training approach myself.

Once a week, I do a “heavy” barbell day: squats or deadlifts, bench or overhead press, rows or pull-ups. Warm up, do several sets. Call it a day. Relatively long workout, which I enjoy.

On a second day, I do what I call my light workout: I begin with some ballistic and explosive stuff: KB swings, light barbell snatch, some vertical jumps, and plyometrics (jumping off a short box). Then about 5 exercises for one set to failure: single leg squat, pushups, pull-ups, single arm overhead press, single arm kettlebell row. It is a shorter workout, that leaves me feeling refreshed, much easier to recover from than my heavy barbell day. But it tells my body it needs to hang on to that muscle, without beating myself up.

Every other day, I try to be physically active: I might go for a long walk, or do a lot of yard work. Several times a week, I try to do a cardio session on an elliptical machine. No real pattern here, just what I feel up to: 1 hour at an easy pace, 30 minutes at a fast pace, 30 minutes where I start at an easy pace, and finish with a sprint. Sometimes a 4x4 interval session.

I also throw in some days where I just do a few sets of kettle bell snatches, and do some heavy club swinging. Doesn’t build muscle or boost my VO2max. But my shoulders and upper body sure feel better, and I think it has lead to a little bit of improvement on my barbell lifts.

If you immerse yourself in HIT culture, you can start to believe that the only exercise worth doing is that which is short, infrequent, intense, and done for the purpose building up your major muscle groups. I did things that way quite often when I was younger and more time pressed. But it didn’t work so well when I got older (I’m now 71).

According to dogmatic HIT types, I am overtraining and wasting my time doing silly and dangerous stuff. I’d rather go by how my body feels, and my body is telling me the HIT gurus are short sighted, looking at particular trees, and not seeing the forest.


Yes this thread is about DB winning a bb’ing contest at 50 years of age. It would have been an impressive accomplishment if his HRT was more transparent. Unfortunately, no one believes bodybuilders in the least, and for good reason, as integrity and honesty are not associated with bodybuilding. So a lack of credibility exists and will be difficult to overcome by DB.

However, bodybuilders look much better when conditioning is accompanied by a cardiovascular element.
Do a heavy rep set of any multi joint exercise, such as a leg press, and, roughly 2-3 minutes afterward there will be heavy breathing. This is the Kreb’s cycle utilizing oxygen from breathing to produce ATP for energy replacement in those exercised muscles.
Therefore, McGuff’s Global Metabolic Conditioning, where pyruvate stacks up to drive metabolism is simply foolishness. Energy needs drive metabolism, and oxygen replenishment in tissues play a huge role. Of course, HiT has a limited and for the most part prejudiced opinion of cardiovascular conditioning, and this has been part of the downfall of this methodology of exercise.


Fine post!

I like multiple sets of 3 reps, similar to Chad Waterbury 10 x 3. I started with 3 sets and upped that to 5, then 8 sets hits a sweet spot.

Isn’t it sad what has happened to HiT!

No…what’s sad is your obsession


Actually, i have been seeing HIT becoming more popular in the last few years…with forums like this, other forms of social media, youtube, xforce and etc

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I like that. When I was a pup I drove a forklift during the summer between college sessions. During semesters I would use the Nautilus room per the instructions set up in The Nautilus Book. At home I had about 350 lbs. of standard weight, and old Sears weight bench (a death trap), and a pair of dumbbells. I did a lot of Jefferson lifts, bench, overhead press, dumbbell curls, lifts that fit my equipment. M-W-F, after 8 hours on a forklift, two Mt. Dews, and Weider Energy Pills I would lift until I was exhausted. But Saturday was my day off and I would do a brief work out. It was a bit refreshing as you say.

Good post.

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X-Force fascinates me. But a trip to the East Coast or the Nordic countries, means I will have to remain fascinated.

Because taking steroids without proper authorization is a serious crime in the United States! Since what you stated above is mostly true, the “sport” of bodybuilding, which is administered by organizations such as the IFBB, share in the corruption of bodybuilding. However, it’s the mind that is neglected by such organizations as above, due to an overemphasis on muscle size, probably due to greed and pride—- old problems,

“There is none so blind as he who will not see”

Nautilus. gone
MedX. gone
SuperSlow gone
X Force. ???
BBS. ???
RenEx. Gone

They all shared one thing:

A disdain of cardiovascular conditioning

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and no one is more blind to see that HIT has nothing to do with the tools used

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Something kept throwing me off the article. What are the conclusions…that weight training improves the condition of people who have left ventricular hypertrophy. Is this the bottom line? I didn’t get to see exactly what kind of weight training either.


In patients with LV hypertrophy and elevated cardiac biomarkers (stage B heart failure with preserved ejection fraction), 1 year of exercise training reduced LV myocardial stiffness. Thus, exercise training may provide protection against the future risk of heart failure with preserved ejection fraction in such patients.

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Exercise Training

For the exercise group, a training program was developed individually for each subject with the goal of increasing duration and intensity consistent with modern training techniques.21–23 A day-by-day training calendar was provided to the subjects. Workouts varied with respect to mode (walk, cycle, swim), duration (30–60 minutes), and intensity (base, interval, recovery) to optimize the training response. Each subject was assigned a personal trainer and a heart rate (HR) monitor to ensure that every session was carefully tracked and recorded. For high-intensity interval training, we used aerobic intervals that have been shown recently to be highly effective at improving max and cardiovascular function.24–27 To individualize training intensity, the maximal steady state (MSS) zone was first determined from the ventilatory and lactate thresholds measured during the maximal exercise test as previously described.13 On the basis of the MSS HR and peak HR, 4 training zones were established for each participant: (1) MSS; (2) base pace (1–20 beats below MSS); (3) interval (>95% HR peak); and (4) recovery (less than base pace). The early training phase (month 1–2) focused on establishing an endurance base and regular exercise routine with participants performing three 30-minute base pace sessions per week. As participants acclimated to the training, MSS sessions were added starting with 2 sessions per month during the second month and increasing to 3 sessions in month 3. In the third month, aerobic intervals consisting of 4×4 interval sessions (4 minutes of exercise at 95% peak HR followed by 3 minutes of active recovery at 60%–75% peak HR, repeated 4 times) were incorporated. The exercise program goal was gradually increased to 2 aerobic interval training sessions per week over the first 7 months and then included at least 2 interval sessions per week for the duration as maintenance. Subjects also performed strength training 1 to 2 days per week.28 All studies were repeated after 1 year of training.

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They don’t say exactly what the resistance training was, but from what I’ve read, I think that these workouts should probably be of the circuit type or, for example, with kettlebells, where the element of endurance is also emphasized. And not just bodybuilding.
Thank you for the reply. This time I was able to read the whole article without any problem.

Aside from the conclusions, there were two things that caught my eye.

One was the VO2max data (Figure 2). Most of the subjects showed pretty modest improvements in VO2max, in line with the idea that the trainability of VO2max is pretty limited. However, it looks like 2 or 3 subjects got pretty substantial increases after a year of training. Evidence, I suppose, for the existence of hyper responders? And a couple of subjects regressed, which would be indicative of some being poor responders to training.

The second was this section of the discussion:

In contrast with sedentary aging, high levels of physical activity throughout the lifespan preserve youthful LV chamber and myocardial compliance, and vascular compliance, as well, although fitness effects on preserving active myocardial relaxation are less protective. Cross-sectional studies suggest that 4 to 5 days per week of committed exercise throughout the aging process are sufficient to achieve most of these effects which is consistent with recent physical activity guidelines for optimal health.

Prolonged exercise training in youth can recapitulate much of the essential cardiac phenotype of the heart of the athlete that is characterized by a large, compliant LV that can accommodate large volumes during exercise. However, once the heart has stiffened in older age, improvements in cardiac or vascular compliance are much harder to obtain. For example, a year of prolonged and intensive exercise training in previously sedentary healthy older men and women failed to change LV chamber and myocardial or vascular compliance. Training was similarly ineffective in changing cardiac compliance in patients with established HFpEF.


It is clear that once established, HFpEF is very difficult to treat with few effective therapies. Therefore strategies to prevent this widespread disorder are essential. Previous work from our group has shown that the heart begins to stiffen in late middle age, which suggested that initiating an exercise training program earlier in the aging process might be more beneficial than once cardiac stiffening has become firmly established. A recent study showed that 2 years of exercise training in middle-aged men and women, at the dose (frequency and intensity) that preserved cardiac and vascular compliance with aging (ie, 4–5 days per week), was able to reverse the cardiac effects of sedentary aging and restore youthful chamber and myocardial compliance.

Makes we wish I had been a little more diligent in this area as I got past 50…

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Furthermore, this brings illumination upon the extremely poor advice on cardiovascular conditioning coming from HiT aficionados since the 70’s!

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