My advice is to stick to what your doctor told you. She is trying to put you on real TRT. If you mess with exogenous test it will show up on your labs. If you don’t want to wait the three months, which I don’t feel is unreasonable, go get another clinic. You will certainly be paying more for it. My advice stick with this doc, you might be able to get insurance to cover what most of us pay hundreds for every month
It does happen. I know a guy that thought he was injecting plain old oil when he had a lab error (likely mixed up with a woman’s bloodwork). He sent his Test out to be tested, and came back as Test and dosed properly. He retested on the same Test, and had results that made a lot more sense.
@hankthetank89 has had lots of weird lab results, but he isn’t in the US.
I plan cruising indefinitely no blasting. overwhelmingly satisfied with my results, feeling/looking solid for my age. feel fine, but, i do not want to ignore the labs.
i plan to drop dose to 100mg per week Feburary 2nd.
Thoughts?
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Thank you dptfit
If you’re going to cruise, no need to go three months for restart, as mentioned by others, just drop the dose.
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Going any route other than the doctors advice is going to jeopardize your ability to get test prescribed. Just keep that in mind. If they draw bloods, and you have supraphysiologic levels, they will not prescribe. If you admit that you did not follow MD advice, they likely will not prescribe. If you keep going the UGL route fine, just know that it may impact your ability to get it legally, especially since you said you aren’t going to blast again. This is your best option in my opinion.
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Thank you.
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Understood. Thank you.
This is higher than my blood results when I was on 875mg a week lol hell of a responder
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That’s why I don’t advocate jumping to conclusions on genetic response to gear based on gear dosage. You and the OP would have a lot closer results (and overall risk) if we controlled for TT and FT, compared to dose. Only difference is you would have to inject a lot more (and it would cost a lot more). If we go by dose, you are at TRT risk and results and OP is at blast risk and results.
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This is reasonable.
Sorry, I have to correct myself here. I meant “not under the physiological range”. I thought you were concerned that your levels would fall to zero, that’s why I said they will be physiological. But obviously seeing your levels and the half life, they will be above the top range after the 10 days.
With near 5000 ng/dL I would take here getting second labs in 4 weeks while not taking anything. You will know your clearance rate of testosterone e if you do that. Very useful. Also, since you are going to health, it won’t hurt if your levels are at the low end in last week. Maybe they aren’t because your body excretes T so slowly that your injection frequency makes it accumulate more than others.
This is not a good idea. Which adverse effects is she speaking of? If she means the shut down from your TRT, that can take longer than 3 months. It is also not a costly or dangerous side effect.
3 months cold turkey will likely lead to depressive symptoms and worse health outcomes and if a medical doctor would know his stuff, he wouldn’t recommend this.
If you want to come off then do a PCT after the second bloods. Otherwise they won’t be helpful and you need low testosterone for PCT anyways.
If you want to stay on TRT, wait for at least 10 days + 1 week so levels can get into what approximates physiology and then take a linearly correlated with your levels dose to start. So in your case 1/5 of 250 mg per week. Then do that for 3 weeks and get bloods. You should then be somewhere in the physiological range and then adjust from there. When you get bloods you should keep peak and trough in mind.
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i do plan on staying on TRT forever!
your idea sounds much better. just to be clear, you are suggesting i wait 17 days from my last pin?
if so, how do you feel about me pinning 125mg per week only once or should i split that up into two pins?
Yes, that’s 2.5 half lives. With 5000 ng/dL you should then be at around 800-900 ng/dL with average excretion rate.
If you are at 5000 with only 250 mg/week, 125 will for sure be to high.
Id start with 50-100 mg per week and inject 2 times. So 25-50 mg per shot. Then after 3 weeks of that take bloods. So on day 38 counted from your last shot.
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right on. thank you so much. i will update thread with progress!
happy new year!
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Happy new year!
on a side note, i posted a question on the training forum. i do not want to cross threads but since you have been so helpful i was wondering if i could get your input on my training.
i feel great, look great and open to tweaks. thanks again
I can just tell you what works for me and a few friends that I’ve helped in combination with my reading on training.
Disclaimer: There are much stronger guys than me here and more advanced guys.
Your workout plan has a strong back focus. Are you trying to bring your back up to par with the rest of your body?
In my opinion for a natural or TRT the most important thing for getting bigger is getting stronger.
That’s why I’m starting (and recommending to start) with a big (main) lift. You can define yourself which your big lifts are, but there are tried and proven ones like squat, bench, DL, press, incline bench, front squats, pull ups and rows. I like the exercises you are using in general, but would structure the workouts differently to get more bang for your buck.
Most people do well by starting out with the neurologically most strenuous movement. (For further info on that, there are many articles on here from for example Christian thibaudeau, whom I personally like very much) That would be the squat or DL for example. Usually this is done for 3-5 sets for 3-5 reps depending on what one can do. Since you mentioned you must be careful, you could go less heavy (up to 8 reps) and for injury prevention be very strict with your ego to really stop at form breakdown (technique/form breakdown = failure).
After that you’d do a less heavy but also compound exercise (= assistance movement). Because it assists a prime exercise. For example for squats this could be Romanian deadlifts. These exercises are usually done lighter 6-8 reps and are variations of the big lifts.
Afterwards, you’d go to 1-4 isolation movements. The point with these is to:
- Bring up lagging muscles
- Minimize CNS stress for these movements
- Target smaller muscle groups directly
You do that by going to lighter weights 10-20 reps and doing them on machines or doing single muscle group exercises, for example bicep curls, lateral raises, leg extensions and so on.
Read this article for guidance:
So your workouts would look like this: (set x reps)
DAY 1
Deadlift 3-5 x 6
Weighted Pull Up 25lbs 3x 4-6
Overhead Press 3-5 x 6
Bent Over Rows 3x8-10
Weighted Dips 3x8-10
Shrugs 2x10-20
(I wouldn’t leg press personally)
100 Crunches
(Depending if the emphasis is back, you could leave the DLs after the pull ups)
DAY 2
NO GYM. Cardio 30MIN JOG AT BEACH
DAY 3
Squats 3-5x6 (no squats because of your knee?)
Incline Bench Press 3-5x5-8
Chin Up 25lbs 2x10+
Vince Gironda Style Neck Press 5 x 6 (really necessary?)
Lat Pull Down Overhand 3x10-12
Dumbell Flat Bench Press 3x10-12
(I wouldn’t do flys)
Skull Crushers 2x15
Dumbbell Pullover 2x15
100 crunches
I think splitting up your workouts a bit more would do you good. An upper lower split would probably work very well for you.
All in all: if you are getting stronger on 2-4 key lifts and you recover well from your workouts, I have no problem with your plan. The point is to progress and in my humble opinion your workouts are currently not optimally directed at progressing. Because you can’t really progress on all simultaneously. There are exercise where the focus and intensity should lie and some where you can approach them with fun and for the pump. Direct resources where the money is made.
The most important thing when I look at your pictures is (because I can see that you bring the intensity and I also see you are dedicated, otherwise I wouldn’t waste my time here 
): you have to adjust your diet.
To progress beyond a certain point you have to grow muscle. To grow muscle means to eat. I understand that if one has been overweight going back to eating more is difficult, because you don’t want to go back. But muscles don’t grow from air.
Do it like this: track your calories and eat a steady amount for 2 weeks. Increase them every two weeks by 200 calories. Weigh yourself every day, if your weekly average increases by 1 lb (so you are gaining 1 lb per week) then stop and eat at that level. You will nearly only gain quality mass, I guarantee it. It will mostly be muscle. You should also be able to increase your main lifts at a good rate then. You’ll get bigger, you’ll get stronger, you won’t get fat.
(Also protein at 1 lb per pound BW, but I think I don’t have to say that)
I think you can do a linear progression at this point, that’s why I didn’t specify what method to use. Leave the methods for later, don’t overcomplicate.
I think you are doing a great job and it shows. You also are one of the pleasant members in this forum when I look at your posts. Good to have you here. Hope I could help.
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Wow, great stuff. I really appreciate it. I will take this advice and make it happen. It will be exciting to post my results.
I will plan a 12 week program starting next week.
thanks again to all of you for your unique point of views and information to ponder over. i spoke to my doctor yesterday and she was impressed with all this feedback. do not worry i did not tell her where i got my info, i told her just us guys talking at the gym, lol.
she threw a curve ball at me so i wanted to get your opinion since you are on the front lines.
since i plan to do my own trt, forever (cruise) she suggested that i switch to test propionate 100 and start over with 100mg per week, two pins.
is there a downside to starting over with a new ester after being on another for so long?
thoughts?
BTW: i can get either one but i am fully stocked with my enanthate. she said i could do 1 enanthate pin per week or two propionate.
@lordgains @Andrewgen_Receptors @iron_yuppie @dptfit @The_Myth
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That’s a tremendously bad idea. Prop is pinned daily. For those who are too lazy to do it daily eod works but it’s not great. Twice a week is utterly ridiculous and demonstrates a total lack of understanding of basic chemistry and pharmacodynamics.
Here’s 50mg twice a week split into e3.5d (100/w)
Here’s 15mg daily (105/w)
Which one has huge peaks and troughs (read: wild hormone imbalance) and which one looks stable and even?
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