T Nation

Dr. Claims My Testicles Will Stay Turned On

I went to the endocrinologist with a testosterone question:

I asked him if there was any way to raise my test levels above 1200 and for the testicles to stay turned on. He said yes…

He gave me 3 vials of HcG and recommended a .15 injection ED.

He then gave me oral testosterone and told me to take 100mg ED.

He said if the oral doesn’t bring me up over 1000 in a month then he would start regular injections of Test E.

2 questions:

—Is the oral worth a shit?

—Will HcG injections every day actually keep my testicles turned on and remain fertile?

Yes on the HCG.

I cant tell how much he put you on because .15 means nothing unlesss you give us another measurement…

.15 ml ? Ok but what concentration in IU’s per ml ?

WTF oral test ? Ive never even heard of that being used for HRT… Why doesn’t he just give you a script for Injectables.

Anything but injectables is expensive and blows, oral, transdermal, it all sucks.

I don’t know where you found that doctor, but you should give him a kiss next time you see him.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Yes on the HCG.

I cant tell how much he put you on because .15 means nothing unlesss you give us another measurement…

.15 ml ? Ok but what concentration in IU’s per ml ?

WTF oral test ? Ive never even heard of that being used for HRT… Why doesn’t he just give you a script for Injectables.

Anything but injectables is expensive and blows, oral, transdermal, it all sucks.[/quote]

Here is the stuff…

http://tinypic.com/r/2ykz1u1/4

HCG will keep your testes up. The only oral test I have ever seen that has any kind of bioavailability at all is Andriol and it isn’t much and it sucks. That you have there looks like no Andriol I have ever seen.

Push for the injects.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Yes on the HCG.

I cant tell how much he put you on because .15 means nothing unlesss you give us another measurement…

.15 ml ? Ok but what concentration in IU’s per ml ?

WTF oral test ? Ive never even heard of that being used for HRT… Why doesn’t he just give you a script for Injectables.

Anything but injectables is expensive and blows, oral, transdermal, it all sucks.[/quote]

Can you tell from the bottle? It’s hard to understand.

Should I also take Clomid to keep my sperm in good numbers?

compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

looking at that hcg bottle it appears to be 11000iu, how much dilutent (water) did he tell you to add to the vial? that will determine the dose. for instance 10ml total volume at 11000iu total is 1100iu per ml, so if you take .15ml per day that is 165 iu per day. of course if you only dilute to 2ml all of this is drastically different (would of course then be 5500iu per ml and .15ml would be 825iu per day

[quote]morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed. [/quote]

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)

[quote]J-J wrote:
morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)[/quote]

I was act under the impression it was simply long ester test dissolved in oil, and not methylated…So I don’t think it would be liver toxic, is this correct ?

Its absorbed as the fat is absorbed, and therefor shouldn’t need the liver to be used.

Either way…its definitely more expensive.

You have to take like 10+ caps a day to get a decent amount of test…and even then the levels are less stable than say prop…even with a long ester

I suppose its better than a monthly or what not injection like many docs use for HRT…

But it sounds like his doc is just writing scripts for whatever the hell OP wants. Take advantage of that.

I say get him to get you some long ester test injectable and just buy your own syringes and inject 3 times a week, add in your HCG, and that would be awesome.

[quote]J-J wrote:
morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)[/quote]

I don’t drink. I don’t have the exact numbers of my LFT, but I know everything checked out ‘great’.

[quote]morepain wrote:
looking at that hcg bottle it appears to be 11000iu, how much dilutent (water) did he tell you to add to the vial? that will determine the dose. for instance 10ml total volume at 11000iu total is 1100iu per ml, so if you take .15ml per day that is 165 iu per day. of course if you only dilute to 2ml all of this is drastically different (would of course then be 5500iu per ml and .15ml would be 825iu per day [/quote]

It was pre-diluted. I didn’t know much about HcG, so I’m just injecting what he told me to.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
J-J wrote:
morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)

I was act under the impression it was simply long ester test dissolved in oil, and not methylated…So I don’t think it would be liver toxic, is this correct ?

Its absorbed as the fat is absorbed, and therefor shouldn’t need the liver to be used.

Either way…its definitely more expensive.

You have to take like 10+ caps a day to get a decent amount of test…and even then the levels are less stable than say prop…even with a long ester

I suppose its better than a monthly or what not injection like many docs use for HRT…

But it sounds like his doc is just writing scripts for whatever the hell OP wants. Take advantage of that.

I say get him to get you some long ester test injectable and just buy your own syringes and inject 3 times a week, add in your HCG, and that would be awesome.[/quote]

Thanks.

I actually have another doctor who is writing me a script for injectables, which my insurance will cover. I will probably leave the oral test alone and do the injectable E with the HcG. He gave me a script for continuous HcG refills.

My main concern is not getting shut down hard again…

[quote]Westclock wrote:
J-J wrote:
morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)

I was act under the impression it was simply long ester test dissolved in oil, and not methylated…So I don’t think it would be liver toxic, is this correct ?

Its absorbed as the fat is absorbed, and therefor shouldn’t need the liver to be used.

Either way…its definitely more expensive.

You have to take like 10+ caps a day to get a decent amount of test…and even then the levels are less stable than say prop…even with a long ester

I suppose its better than a monthly or what not injection like many docs use for HRT…

But it sounds like his doc is just writing scripts for whatever the hell OP wants. Take advantage of that.

I say get him to get you some long ester test injectable and just buy your own syringes and inject 3 times a week, add in your HCG, and that would be awesome.[/quote]

All true - i was going from a vague memory of reading that - so your post made me go and look it up - or skim through some of my books anyway, this proved fruitless - so i would have to assume i remembered incorrectly.

Sorry!

But regardless - i think it is a decent script… what does that dose of andriol compare to for an injectable compound?

Plus how can it be oil to be absorbed through the lymphatic system if it is sublingual? A lipid soluble drug taken sublingually will be absorbed into the circulatory system wouldn’t it?

Passive diffusion and all that…

Well mate TRT is not a temporary fix. It shuts you down as hard as you can be.

The HCG ONLY signals the testes to secrete T, it does nothing for the brain which will remain fully inhibited.

HCG does keep the balls working but does not counter being shut down.

Once you go on TRT the idea is you stay on it… don’t take this decision lightly.

Also you are not going to build slabs of muscle and get tonk on that as it is a therapeutic dose that is a replacement for your natural testosterone - ie. T-R-T. It is not SUPRAphysiological (or not supposed to be - and really doesn’t want to be for health reasons, especially if you have no way to control the estrogen which will be really quite high on T and HCG).

You are young, you may want kids, TRT doesn’t rule this out but it may well make it an issue - and the HCG stimulates the Testes to make T, not sperm.

I suspect there is a little more to this than you have given thought.

May i ask… what was the plan? To go on T injections to ‘fix’ you? I mean… what is the meaning of going on test replacement then exclaiming you dont want to be ‘shut down hard’ again? That is kinda… well.

JJ

[quote]J-J wrote:
Well mate TRT is not a temporary fix. It shuts you down as hard as you can be.

The HCG ONLY signals the testes to secrete T, it does nothing for the brain which will remain fully inhibited.

HCG does keep the balls working but does not counter being shut down.

Once you go on TRT the idea is you stay on it… don’t take this decision lightly.

Also you are not going to build slabs of muscle and get tonk on that as it is a therapeutic dose that is a replacement for your natural testosterone - ie. T-R-T. It is not SUPRAphysiological (or not supposed to be - and really doesn’t want to be for health reasons, especially if you have no way to control the estrogen which will be really quite high on T and HCG).

You are young, you may want kids, TRT doesn’t rule this out but it may well make it an issue - and the HCG stimulates the Testes to make T, not sperm.

I suspect there is a little more to this than you have given thought.

May i ask… what was the plan? To go on T injections to ‘fix’ you? I mean… what is the meaning of going on test replacement then exclaiming you dont want to be ‘shut down hard’ again? That is kinda… well.

JJ[/quote]

It kind of puts me in a crappy predicament. My levels are obviously naturally low for my age but always have been. I would ideally hord all the doctor prescribed injectable test and make it cycle-worthy, opposed to TRT.

BUT I am sitting at a test level of 217 right now and I’m feeling like a 10 year old girl scout.

BUT it’s also very important for me to have kids in the near future.

What if I did the daily HcG and oral test to boost my levels a tad, and once I have a more sustained level, I start the injectable? Won’t taking clomid in conjunction help with the sperm count?

Thanks for the help.

[quote]J-J wrote:
Westclock wrote:
J-J wrote:
morepain wrote:
compounded sublinquil trouches i would guess…its not that uncommon…people think if it isn’t prevalent on an internet steroid forum it must suck. Just go with the plan and see how the labs turn out, that will tell you what you want to know. make sure on the follow up labs you ask for an estradiol test as well to be sure e2 is in optimal range. With the oral T and hcg chances are e2 will have to be addressed.

x2.

Andriol is a good Testosterone source for TRT… the issue is the fact it is toxic.

Do you drink and what did your last LFT say? (as i KNOW your doc did one before prescribing this)

I was act under the impression it was simply long ester test dissolved in oil, and not methylated…So I don’t think it would be liver toxic, is this correct ?

Its absorbed as the fat is absorbed, and therefor shouldn’t need the liver to be used.

Either way…its definitely more expensive.

You have to take like 10+ caps a day to get a decent amount of test…and even then the levels are less stable than say prop…even with a long ester

I suppose its better than a monthly or what not injection like many docs use for HRT…

But it sounds like his doc is just writing scripts for whatever the hell OP wants. Take advantage of that.

I say get him to get you some long ester test injectable and just buy your own syringes and inject 3 times a week, add in your HCG, and that would be awesome.

All true - i was going from a vague memory of reading that - so your post made me go and look it up - or skim through some of my books anyway, this proved fruitless - so i would have to assume i remembered incorrectly.

Sorry!

But regardless - i think it is a decent script… what does that dose of andriol compare to for an injectable compound?

Plus how can it be oil to be absorbed through the lymphatic system if it is sublingual? A lipid soluble drug taken sublingually will be absorbed into the circulatory system wouldn’t it?

Passive diffusion and all that…[/quote]

I dont think andriol was meant to be sublingual. Perhaps you could take it sublingually though…

Im fairly sure andriol is an oil base that was designed to be absorbed through the intestines like any other fats/oils.

With the long ester I suppose it could work for HRT, But still; clearly the absorption would not be as good sublingual as it would actually injected into muscle…

[quote]army stud wrote:
J-J wrote:
Well mate TRT is not a temporary fix. It shuts you down as hard as you can be.

The HCG ONLY signals the testes to secrete T, it does nothing for the brain which will remain fully inhibited.

HCG does keep the balls working but does not counter being shut down.

Once you go on TRT the idea is you stay on it… don’t take this decision lightly.

Also you are not going to build slabs of muscle and get tonk on that as it is a therapeutic dose that is a replacement for your natural testosterone - ie. T-R-T. It is not SUPRAphysiological (or not supposed to be - and really doesn’t want to be for health reasons, especially if you have no way to control the estrogen which will be really quite high on T and HCG).

You are young, you may want kids, TRT doesn’t rule this out but it may well make it an issue - and the HCG stimulates the Testes to make T, not sperm.

I suspect there is a little more to this than you have given thought.

May i ask… what was the plan? To go on T injections to ‘fix’ you? I mean… what is the meaning of going on test replacement then exclaiming you dont want to be ‘shut down hard’ again? That is kinda… well.

JJ

It kind of puts me in a crappy predicament. My levels are obviously naturally low for my age but always have been. I would ideally hord all the doctor prescribed injectable test and make it cycle-worthy, opposed to TRT.

BUT I am sitting at a test level of 217 right now and I’m feeling like a 10 year old girl scout.

BUT it’s also very important for me to have kids in the near future.

What if I did the daily HcG and oral test to boost my levels a tad, and once I have a more sustained level, I start the injectable? Won’t taking clomid in conjunction help with the sperm count?

Thanks for the help. [/quote]

Viable sperm require very high concentrations of testosterone, locally, to ensure viable development. When you take steroids you no longer produce testosterone in the testes so sperm cannot develop. Testosterone from external sources cannot diffuse into the testes in high enough concentrations to ever allow sperm development, no matter how much you took. Clomid will have no impact on sperm count whilst taking any chemical that shuts down natural testosterone production it will never restart your own T production whilst using AS. After AS use is over and your system is clear testosterone etc it can help retart and increase sperm count thus.

The only way to keep sperm healthy whilst on gear is regular HCG use

[quote]Cymru wrote:
army stud wrote:
J-J wrote:
Well mate TRT is not a temporary fix. It shuts you down as hard as you can be.

The HCG ONLY signals the testes to secrete T, it does nothing for the brain which will remain fully inhibited.

HCG does keep the balls working but does not counter being shut down.

Once you go on TRT the idea is you stay on it… don’t take this decision lightly.

Also you are not going to build slabs of muscle and get tonk on that as it is a therapeutic dose that is a replacement for your natural testosterone - ie. T-R-T. It is not SUPRAphysiological (or not supposed to be - and really doesn’t want to be for health reasons, especially if you have no way to control the estrogen which will be really quite high on T and HCG).

You are young, you may want kids, TRT doesn’t rule this out but it may well make it an issue - and the HCG stimulates the Testes to make T, not sperm.

I suspect there is a little more to this than you have given thought.

May i ask… what was the plan? To go on T injections to ‘fix’ you? I mean… what is the meaning of going on test replacement then exclaiming you dont want to be ‘shut down hard’ again? That is kinda… well.

JJ

It kind of puts me in a crappy predicament. My levels are obviously naturally low for my age but always have been. I would ideally hord all the doctor prescribed injectable test and make it cycle-worthy, opposed to TRT.

BUT I am sitting at a test level of 217 right now and I’m feeling like a 10 year old girl scout.

BUT it’s also very important for me to have kids in the near future.

What if I did the daily HcG and oral test to boost my levels a tad, and once I have a more sustained level, I start the injectable? Won’t taking clomid in conjunction help with the sperm count?

Thanks for the help.

Viable sperm require very high concentrations of testosterone, locally, to ensure viable development. When you take steroids you no longer produce testosterone in the testes so sperm cannot develop. Testosterone from external sources cannot diffuse into the testes in high enough concentrations to ever allow sperm development, no matter how much you took. Clomid will have no impact on sperm count whilst taking any chemical that shuts down natural testosterone production it will never restart your own T production whilst using AS. After AS use is over and your system is clear testosterone etc it can help retart and increase sperm count thus.

The only way to keep sperm healthy whilst on gear is regular HCG use

[/quote]

FSH - does this have absolutely no mention in sperm production?

This is inhibited on steroids and HCG does nothing for it.

[quote]J-J wrote:
Cymru wrote:
army stud wrote:
J-J wrote:
Well mate TRT is not a temporary fix. It shuts you down as hard as you can be.

The HCG ONLY signals the testes to secrete T, it does nothing for the brain which will remain fully inhibited.

HCG does keep the balls working but does not counter being shut down.

Once you go on TRT the idea is you stay on it… don’t take this decision lightly.

Also you are not going to build slabs of muscle and get tonk on that as it is a therapeutic dose that is a replacement for your natural testosterone - ie. T-R-T. It is not SUPRAphysiological (or not supposed to be - and really doesn’t want to be for health reasons, especially if you have no way to control the estrogen which will be really quite high on T and HCG).

You are young, you may want kids, TRT doesn’t rule this out but it may well make it an issue - and the HCG stimulates the Testes to make T, not sperm.

I suspect there is a little more to this than you have given thought.

May i ask… what was the plan? To go on T injections to ‘fix’ you? I mean… what is the meaning of going on test replacement then exclaiming you dont want to be ‘shut down hard’ again? That is kinda… well.

JJ

It kind of puts me in a crappy predicament. My levels are obviously naturally low for my age but always have been. I would ideally hord all the doctor prescribed injectable test and make it cycle-worthy, opposed to TRT.

BUT I am sitting at a test level of 217 right now and I’m feeling like a 10 year old girl scout.

BUT it’s also very important for me to have kids in the near future.

What if I did the daily HcG and oral test to boost my levels a tad, and once I have a more sustained level, I start the injectable? Won’t taking clomid in conjunction help with the sperm count?

Thanks for the help.

Viable sperm require very high concentrations of testosterone, locally, to ensure viable development. When you take steroids you no longer produce testosterone in the testes so sperm cannot develop. Testosterone from external sources cannot diffuse into the testes in high enough concentrations to ever allow sperm development, no matter how much you took. Clomid will have no impact on sperm count whilst taking any chemical that shuts down natural testosterone production it will never restart your own T production whilst using AS. After AS use is over and your system is clear testosterone etc it can help retart and increase sperm count thus.

The only way to keep sperm healthy whilst on gear is regular HCG use

FSH - does this have absolutely no mention in sperm production?

This is inhibited on steroids and HCG does nothing for it.[/quote]

JJ - Sperm can develop normally without FSH in the presence of HCG (admittedly at lower concentrations but viable never the less). See the link below - normal sperm production in males who have had their FSH and LH secretion suppressed by exogenous T. Normal sperm production occurs with HCG addition - despite the fact that FSH is not present

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/reprint/6/3/137.pdf