I was wondering how T-Nation regulars feel about Bernardi’s new view of Energy Balance?
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-077-diet
It’s interesting, and it does make sense…but im rather skeptical.
Opinions?
[quote]glenmowen wrote:
I was wondering how T-Nation regulars feel about Bernardi’s new view of Energy Balance?
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-077-diet
It’s interesting, and it does make sense…but im rather skeptical.
Opinions?
[/quote]
Pretty interesting,
A lot of it makes sense…some of it i couldn’t get through, but i got the gist of what he was saying.
The most profound thing…which i don’t REALLY buy 100%…is the client he sited as having:
- Increased her daily calories by 1500
- Did not increase her exercise one bit
- Lost 25 pounds in 2 months.
Really!?!?
If this is actually true, JB will be a multimillionaire.
Of course i’d love to see a study of maybe 100 women/clients that have the exact same effect.
Don’t get me wrong…i’m a big Berardi believer…but that example is outrageous.
[quote]sven33
Pretty interesting,
A lot of it makes sense…some of it i couldn’t get through, but i got the gist of what he was saying.
The most profound thing…which i don’t REALLY buy 100%…is the client he sited as having:
- Increased her daily calories by 1500
- Did not increase her exercise one bit
- Lost 25 pounds in 2 months.
Really!?!?
If this is actually true, JB will be a multimillionaire.
Of course i’d love to see a study of maybe 100 women/clients that have the exact same effect.
Don’t get me wrong…i’m a big Berardi believer…but that example is outrageous.
[/quote]
I can definitely see that. My girlfried is one of these people. Not quite that extreme though. If this example is an athlete and exercises 8-12 hours a week and only eats 600 cals then upping the intake by 1500 cals would increase lean mass and accelerate fat burning.
If only i could get my GF to understand this.
[quote]beaul wrote:
sven33
I can definitely see that. My girlfried is one of these people. Not quite that extreme though. If this example is an athlete and exercises 8-12 hours a week and only eats 600 cals then upping the intake by 1500 cals would increase lean mass and accelerate fat burning.
[/quote]
Yeah, but 25 pounds in 2 months???
NO change at all except a 25% increase in calories?
That’s insane.
The other two examples he sites seem more logical, but that first one…man.
[quote]sven33 wrote:
- Increased her daily calories by 1500
- Did not increase her exercise one bit
- Lost 25 pounds in 2 months.
[/quote]
Let’s do the math. To lose 25 pounds of fat, you’d need to have a caloric deficit of 87,500 calories. (25 lbs. x 3500 kcals/lb.). To burn these calories over a 62 day period, you’d have to be in a daily caloric deficit of 1400 kcals.
His claim is that by increasing a person’s calories by 1,500 calories a day, he created a caloric deficit of 1,400 calories. IOW, she went from no deficit (0) to a 1400 kcal deficit (-1400) by adding 1500 kcals (+1500).
Either he is making this up, or using an extreme example involving a super-freak to support his claim. If one needs a super-freak to support his claims, one must question the person’s claims.
Maybe she manipulated her nutrient timing as well…
25 lbs is extreme, but extremes always exists and this appears to be the case.
Yes, in all these examples people’s bodies seemed to be in the “store for starvation” mode.
if i am not mistaken it was an elite female endurance athlete training 2 hrs per day. so it was an abnormal case. however, the principle remains for those engaged in exercise though not at this extreme calorie level.
[quote]ubl0 wrote:
if i am not mistaken it was an elite female endurance athlete training 2 hrs per day. so it was an abnormal case. however, the principle remains for those engaged in exercise though not at this extreme calorie level.[/quote]
Wrong. You do not prove that a hypothesis generally applies by using people who have extreme genetics.
The workouts Arnold Schwarzenegger used worked for him. They would not work for 98% of people. Thus, if you were the one who designed Schwarzengger’s programs, it would be misleading at best for you to say that your programs work for most people.
Why do you think otherwise?
Im a big believer of nutrient timing and setting up the corrrect nutrient ratio. If you take a look at the example with the women who lost 23 lbs, you will notice a BIG change in the ratio of carbs, fat and protein.
This could have a BIG effect on a skier, especially when most of her energy exp. will come from carbs. She will burn fat faster this way.
All I know is, I’m currently eating more than I’ve ever done, I’m gaining weight, and I still seem to be leaning out. I now have two protruding veins on my lower abs, which I’ve never seen before. I’ve never actually been able to touch and feel my veins in that area.
And the foods I’m eating more of is things like butter, bacon, white rice and white bread. I’m trying to get a maximal insulin response by combining high GI carbs and saturated fat, as I’m trying to gain mass.
Maybe it has something to do with the CLA in all the organic butter and organic whole milk I’m getting… or the omega-3s in all the cod liver oil… but mainly I think it’s because I’m currently lifting with high intensity 5 days a week.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Wrong. You do not prove that a hypothesis generally applies by using people who have extreme genetics.
The workouts Arnold Schwarzenegger used worked for him. They would not work for 98% of people. Thus, if you were the one who designed Schwarzengger’s programs, it would be misleading at best for you to say that your programs work for most people.
Why do you think otherwise?[/quote]
you are obsessed with proof. it has made you blind to your own logical missteps.
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who says she has extreme genetics. my friend lost 10 lbs a month for 5 months doing nothing other than walking an hour a day and changing food choices (this included increasing calories by about 400-500 kcal). i can assure you he is not genetically extreme.
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it is true it would be misleading at best. mostly because the programs (mine or JB’s) have this little thingy called individualization. so it actually does work for most people (assuming the people work for it and are not ill in any way).
why do i think otherwise? i don’t know, but i can tell you why i don’t think otherwise: to many people have succeeded. if it didn’t work for you, you didn’t work for it. we can run that trial a million times till the statisticians sign off on it and it is accepted as proof, but somehow i suspect the results won’t change.
I figure I’ll chime in with one post or two on this topic.
First, if you haven’t read the case study in the referenced article, either read it or don’t post your opinion of what you think I may have sorta said.
There’s nothing worse than people trying to rebut something they know absolutely nothing about. It leads to all sorts of assumptions. So just read the article if you feel compelled to post. Then, rebut away, if you think you have something to rebut.
Second, the athlete in question is one of many I’ve used to illustrate a point…that in some individuals, the combination of underfeeding, poor food choices, and poor food timing reduces energy expenditure and creates a poor nutrient partitioning so much so that to lose fat and improve body comp, they need to ramp up energy intake WHILE improving food type and timing.
If you read the interview and articles I link to below you’ll see that I assert very firmly that energy balance is critical and you do need to be in a negative energy balance to lose weight.
Yet I also assert that there are a number of complex factors driving energy expenditure that are hard to predict even within single individuals. So, in saying “eat less to lose fat”, you may be right. Or you may be wrong. Again, before you try to rebut this, read the materials I link to below.
Third, indeed, the athlete in question was measured at the University of Calgary via Bod Pod. Her data is one file and her case was monitored by researchers at the top winter sport training and research center in Canada - the Calgary Sports Center. This is not made up or sensationalistic. This really happened.
Whether this case study applies to anyone reading this post or not, I don’t know. All I know is your screen name. However, if you’re curious as to the way in which I go about figuring this out, read this:
Troubleshooting Poor Weight Loss Outcome
Fourth, if you’re genuinely interested in learning something about this phenomenon and really getting into the complexity of energy balance and G-Flux, you should read this 3 part interview here:
The 3 Part G-Flux Interview
This might also give you a practical example (using myself) of what I’m talking about above.
Practicing What I Preach
And, of course, you should also check out the original G-Flux article here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=909183
These should help give you a bit more perspective on what I’m talking about. It’s hard to fit everything into a single article like the New View of Energy Balance linked to by the original poster (and here again):
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=628588
[quote]glenmowen wrote:
I was wondering how T-Nation regulars feel about Bernardi’s new view of Energy Balance?
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-077-diet
It’s interesting, and it does make sense…but im rather skeptical.
Opinions?
[/quote]
One note of clarification here, the ideas in this article you link above aren’t necessarily my “new diet principles”.
This article represents a theoretical impression of the complex subject of energy balance.
And this is not the same thing as my practical nutritional advice. Sure, my advice takes into account this view of energy balance. But they are worlds apart in terms of teaching folks how to eat to reach their goals.
If you’re interested in learning more about these principles, I highly recommend you check out Precision Nutrition:
Here are some reviews of PN from the T-Nation sister site:
http://www.musclewithattitude.com/readTopicMwa.do?id=1491156
All I know is this. I recently have been reading more and more about g-flux. So, I increases my calories quite a bit and also added more exercises…mostly low-level stuff like walking with an x-vest.
As someone who can put on muscle fairly easily, but also puts on fat, i was nervous. However,the first week, my bodyweight stayed the same, but waist was down 1/4". Second week, bdwt was down 2lbs and another 1/4" drop in waist measurement. Now, last week I almost freaked. Weight was +4. Thought I fucked up…then I measured and yup, another 1/4" decrease.
So, i got to eat much more, which is fun. Plus, I take the dog out for walks more often, which is also fun. And, I lost fat. Another 1/4" and I’m where I wanna be…now I gotta figure out how to eat more to maintain.
So, 3/4" loss isnt as dramatic as 25lbs, but I’ve been at this game for quite a while…and I’ve been getting commments that I look bigger. So, I’m gonna have to throw my support behind Doc B on this one.
JB,
How did the athlete’s performance improve after this change in weight?
I would guess it’d be a help as cross country skiiing is an endurance based sport and usually the less weight the better.
I truly believe what JB is saying in this article, and I highly believe in G-Flux. A person’s metabolism can be “developed” over time with proper feeding based upon quantity, quality, and timing. I have seen this personally with myself.
I would workout hard, but my nutrition was not ideal. Once I figured it out and got more disciplined, I was eating WAY may food, losing fat mass while maintaining LBM.
Quite literally, each week I could see myself lean out. It made no sense to me as I was not eating MORE than I was before. People dont realize how hard it is to get large amounts of quality calories in when you are eating clean.
Veggies offer little caloric content, and protein is filling. If you eat your protein before your veggies ( a good idea since you will need an acidic environment for protein digestion and veggies are alkanizing), then your veggies, you will not feel inclined to pig out on your carbs.
The think the bottom line is that we have a better understanding of how the body works, but it is not figured out completely. After all, that is why it is called the practice of medicine. There are numerous factors of which we know, and some that we dont, as to why such dramatic changes occur when all factors of the body comp equation are realized.
not to hi jack this thread but i do have a question regarding g flux - would a carb cycling approach withing the gflux principles be beneificial?
if you replaced the cycled carbs with healthy fats and protiens to maintain the total amount of calories consumed. Has anyone tried this? i would love to hear anyfeed back as i find the whole gflux idea fascinating.
[quote]itsthetimman wrote:
JB,
How did the athlete’s performance improve after this change in weight?
I would guess it’d be a help as cross country skiiing is an endurance based sport and usually the less weight the better.[/quote]
Absolutely…she placed second (silver medal) at the Jr World Championships that year.
[quote]amdl3k wrote:
not to hi jack this thread but i do have a question regarding g flux - would a carb cycling approach withing the gflux principles be beneificial?
if you replaced the cycled carbs with healthy fats and protiens to maintain the total amount of calories consumed. Has anyone tried this? i would love to hear anyfeed back as i find the whole gflux idea fascinating.[/quote]
Certainly…it could work…although it’s not necessary for everyone.
There are many ways to break down your macronutrient intake and the Precision Nutrition system does so by body type.
Again, I’ll encourage you to pick up a copy of PN V2.0 (linked above).
The individualization guide will likely answer every question you have about what your nutritional level is (each level requires a different type of focus) and how to eat for your body type (different body types start with a different macro split).
I dont find it that odd that a hard training athlete that probably wasnt doing too well with her original diet could lose 3.1 pounds a week for 8 weeks. Including the lose of some lean mass, with a complete dietry overhaul. I doubt she did it in baby steps either.
I personally love the idea that metabolism upregulates/downregulates under different conditions. I can personally attest my metabolism changeing when all i did was change from junk food to regular real food meals. Not exactly the same calories but i did lean up.