T Nation

Dosing Question: Anastrozole


#1

Brief History: Started TRT over a year ago. 100mg Test Cyp per week, divided up now into 2 injections per week. Total test is now up to 650 from 300. Doc wants to shoot for 750 to 1000 normally, but with me he is happy where it is! I think he likes mine lower knowing I lift and is always wondering if I'm after gear!!!!LOL! Read alot on here in the past, got my E2 tested(44) and ordered Anastrozole Liquid(1mg per ml). I have decided, after reading all I could here, to start at a dose of 1mg per week divided up into multiple doses.

My questions: How often should I dose and what is a good way to figure out how many drops to take per dose? It came with an eyedropper, do I use it or should I purchase something more accurate? I know I read something a long time ago somewhere on here about dosages, but damn if I can find it now.


#2

Theoretically speaking, 1mg adex/week will lower your E2 number by half. You may be an under-responder, you may be an over-responder, or you may be a "normal" responder. The only way to tell is start at 1mg/week in divided doses, wait two months and get your E2 re-tested.
Oh dosing... 5 drops 6 days a week will work just fine to start.


#3

Dropper has ml markings. You need to count the drops per ml. If 28, then 8 drops EOD is 1mg/ml.

If water based, may be 28 drops per ml. If based on glycerol and/or PEG might be closer to 40 drops per ml.


#4

KNB and KSMAN - Thanks, I will start my dosing today and try to watch for signs of over responding!


#5

You can also use ZRT blood spot testing as it is 5% deviation from lab corp results to check. I would use liquidex but results have been to inconsistant over the months so I just stick with ADEX and try to dose it the best I can. Since reducing dhea I have notce a huge drop in e2 and recalibration of adex.


#6

8 drops eod it is. This is 3rd day on, no issues yet. If I were an overresponder, how fast would negative sides show? I am assuming possitive effects won't show for at lest 3 or 4 weeks???


#7

The half life of adex in men is supposedly 50 hours. So it takes between 15 and 21 days for your serum level to max out; that does not mean of course you will notice any changes unless you are an "over-responder" and then maybe as soon as three days.
For me, even though my E2 dropped from in half in 16 days it still took me a couple of months until I felt "right" again, but my E2 numbers were over double the top of the scale range, and I had what is commonly referred to as estrogen poisoning at the time.

Some guys do start to feel better in a couple of weeks, but the changes are small to start and hard to track unless you remember going from no morning wood for years to morning wood every day.


#8

After one 'corrects' a T:E ratio, it takes time for gene expression to change and aggregate tissue changes to occur, and in the brain, thought and other mental patterns take time to change and evolve. Libido changes can be fast. Mood and other mental/emotional effects are more like two months instead of libido's two weeks.

Over responders can feel the wind knocked out of them within a week. Some will feel a brief libido spike as E hits a sweet spot then falls below that.

I have seen shorter half live numbers published and statements that a steady state serum levels are achieved within one week, even when the articles state longer elimination half lives. I used to recommend that guys front load anastrozole to get results sooner. I stopped doing that as I found more and more guys who are over responders. The medical community does not know about over-responders. While front loading seems to be a great idea, I do not want to be sending the over-responders under the hammer. I have had guys tell me what it is like. Some react poorly, act depressed and avoid social contact.


#9

Great info from you both. I am glad to hear that since I haven't noticed anything yet, I am probably doing fine. My brain had me at under responder just because I hadn't noticed anything yet! I am new to the self-medicating part of TRT and am a little paranoid! Hopefully that is a healthy thing to be. I just remeber how hard and how fast that first shot of 200 mg of test hit when my doc front loaded me and gave me androgel. I wish I could bring those 4 or 5 days back. Man that was a great feeling, maybe not the smartest thing in hindsight, but hey it was fun while it lasted.


#10

I am wondering if I am an "over responder" based on what I am reading. Been on Test C for about 2 years, currently running .3ml X 2 a week. None of my "expert doctors" discussed E levels. I had mixed results on TRT, and noted that my libido would seem to increase just before my next shot, then drop off about 12 hours or so afterwards. I finally got ahold of some A-dex in .1mg caps and began doing .1mg per day.

That seemed to work great at first, so I dropped it off to .1mg EOD. Convinced that E was my issue all along, I purchased some L-dex 1mg/ml and continued at .1ml EOD. After about 3 weeks that did not work well, and finally I went to my Doc and got labs, with T coming back at 834 (250-1100), Free T 201.8 (35-155) and E at 43 (13-54). At that time I had no libido, was crying watching "Animal Planet" and felt very emotional.

I immediately dosed L-dex at .5ml, then I think (?) I followed it up the next day with .3ml. Within a couple nights I had wood all night and every morning like I have not had in a very long time (I'm 45yrs old, 12.5% BF, in excellent shape). Excited (literally) and with my drive off the charts, I continued to take .25 - .3ml EOD and possibly every day and a half.

Then, after about a week and a half libido started dropping off. I decided I might have done too much, so a week ago on thursday 6/19 I took my last "untracked" dose and did not take anything until Sunday (6/21) when I took .25ml again. I continued this on tuesday .25ml, and have not taken any since. I have continued Test C on my usual days, injecting on Sunday 6/21 and Weds 6/24.

Libido is about a 5 on a 10 scale (about where it has been since it dropped off, maybe slightly better), but NO night time erections yet, some ED, and certainly nothing like the heart pounding drive and raging hard ons I had before (man that was nice!) So, it has been a week since I reduced my L-dex, taking a total of .5mls in that week, and I am VERY tempted (being impatient after all these years of frustration) to hit a .5ml L-dex to see what happens... but I am gonna wait a bit to see what YOU experts think.

And let me say a BIG THANK YOU for being out there... it was Happydogs post on E that finally got me what I have been looking for and that NONE of the so called "expert" docs I was paying money to had even discussed. I thank you, and my girl is gonna thank you once I get this dialed in... we can both hardly wait!

So, what do you guys think? Hit it harder or wait and see?


#11

PM me with your info on the L-dex. Not are equal dosed.

With E2=22pg/ml as a target. New dose = old dose/22 = .1ml EOD * 43/22 =~ .2ml EOD.

Note that when you start or change your adex dose that the half life creates a lag in serum levels. It can take around one week to stabilize. When you increased your adex by a factor of five, it took a while for the adex serum level to build up and it also takes time for the existing serum E2 to be cleared out by the liver.

If my assumptions going into the above calculate are good, then I suggest that you try the 0.2 ml EOD.

There is a transient surge in libido when one lowers E2 like this. Then libido goes down to a more normal state.


#12

A google search shows arimadex is labeled for use in women with estrogen-responsive breast cancer. Yikes! Would't OTC medications be safer: Chrysalin or DIM are two I've found in reseaching this. I've been injecting testosterone cypionate 100mg every seven days for the past eight weeks. Libido has improved and I'm back to having 'morning wood'. Shippen's book recommends cruciferous vegetables to counter any estrogen elevation. My understanding is the active ingredient in these veggies is TIM.


#13

To be honest, I've tried all of those with little or no effect. Though DIM may have worked some I have no objective lab data to prove it, and it could have been my body cycling through the E as I described above. I got an extensive response from a doctor who researches DIM and he explained that it is more about converting "bad" estrogen into "good" (non-damaging to the prostate) E. He did not think it would make a difference in reducing the levels. It is also my understanding that Chrysin has been debunked. Been there, done that!

The only thing that has made a radical and clear change in 2 years of agony and frustration is real estrogen blockers. You may be different, but that is my experience.


#14

Your adex is 1.0 mg/ml. So at .2ml 3.5 times per week that is .7ml per week, or .7mg/wk. We know that most guys on 100mg test ester per week do well on around 1.0mg of anastrozole per week. Over responders have to take around 1/4th of the expected dose or less. You new computed dose is 70% of the expected dose. That does NOT make you look like an over responder.

CRVC: Adex competes for aromatase enzyme reaction with T. It lowers T-->E aromatization rates. That reduces E2 levels. Lowering E2 is important for treatment of estrogen positive breast cancers. In small doses, it can be used to modulate E2 levels in men. Women with cancer take 1mg/day. Men need 1mg/week on TRT. Some men use 0.5mg/week when not on TRT. Note that adex is competitive with T. The amount of adex required depends on serum T levels; perhaps more specifically on FT or bio-T. Arimidex/adex/anastrozole is the drug of choice. The amounts used are very small and less drug means less side effects.


#15

Just wanted to post publicly so that others may benefit...

At KSman's suggestion and after some testing, am now doing .35mg of Adex (in liquid form) EOD for an approx total of 1.25mg/week with excellent results using about 140mgs of Test C (70mg x2 week, injected). I've been on Test C at about that level for over 2 years and had very up and down (mostly down) results before addressing E levels. I would test high "normal" for E, in the upper normal ranges for T but libido and ED were major issues. Everything is GREAT now and I feel like I did years and years ago.

I tried EVERYTHING (all the OTC pills, all the supplements, all the ED meds), but addressing E level was MOST CERTAINLY the key and the ONLY thing that worked, even though I would test "normal." I do not know what my current E level is (was 39 on .2mg Adex EOD before increasing to the .35 EOD, E scale max 54), but I suspect it is in the upper 20's or low 30's now. When I get tested again I will post it. Guess my main point is, if you are on T replacement and continuing to have issues, look at E!!!! And a public and greatful THANK YOU to all who have contributed to this and many other posts... and thanks KSman!


#16

Good for you 672

I backed off my initial dosing because I was experiencing major joint problems in my elbows. Right now I am 2 1/2 weeks off the Adex and joints(elbows) are starting to feel better I think. Only problem is I started incorporating chins into my workout about the same time I started the dosing. Since I am a fatass, that could be what is messing up my elbows! I am going hard at the chins right now while off the Adex. How many weeks for the Adex to leave my system and return my High E numbers so I can determine which one is the culprit?
Thanks


#17

I would try backing off direct bicep work if you're hitting your back harder, that helps a lot for me when I get elbow issues.