DarkDescartes TRT Recovery Log

The new school thought (which I subscribe to) is no AI on trt unless symptoms are clear and present (that’s after giving yourself long enough time for the body to normalize after a new protocol. I was deathly scared of gyno and felt every little thing was caused by E2. I followed ksman to the T and chased E2 of 22 but eventually was talked into not taking an AI and man did everything improve. There are some people that need to take it but they are the minority. When you get into high dose cycles you like 750mg of T then you may need to take an AI bit there are guys even at that amount that don’t.

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I guess constant testing. If healthy, E2 will only go up proportionally with your T. Ratio should maintain. People who experience problems usually have some issue processing excess estrogen through their liver. T goes up, E goes up, T gets metabolized and goes down and so does E. Best to test on peak and on trough and see if the ratios stay constant.

Thats how i used to be!

I used to cycle 500mg/wk with test cyp and never needed an AI once. It was only towards the last 3rd where i started to get tired and all the classic e2 symptoms. Never been the same since then.

I do wonder if i should apply occams razor (simplest explanation is the best one) on this one. Doing hcg with an AI and test has never given me balance when i think about it.

I’ll try your method and see how it works. Hopefully i find some success along with wellbutrin in my future.

I’ve been feeling hopeless for awhile, i got a little more life in me now!

Thanks for the input!!!

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Btw the way, do you judge your need for an AI through bloodwork only or by your feeling day to day?

@darkdescartes
I would say both. I think a lot of what people attribute to estrogen is something other than estrogen. For instance much of what I thought were E2 symptoms turned out to be anemia and taking iron & B12 helped that a lot. Thyroid problems often go undiagnosed as well. It’s imperative that when you don’t feel well to get a full spectrum blood test done and see where you are. E2 is one of a gazillion things that could be causing problems but because of old school bro-science we attribute everything to estrogen. We don’t really even understand everything estrogen does and are only just now realizing it’s role in all sorts of things. I think the safest way to think is that an AI is a last resort and only to be used once everything else has been ruled out.

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Your title is about dopamine … Testosterone supplements are known to increase serotonin.

I ran dopamine and serotonin tests to see where I stood. Sharing FYI.

@traveling-man
Did you ever figure out what the dopamine test said? The <80 of <20? I was trying to make sense of that but couldn’t. I didn’t realize you could test dopamine. Well definitely be doing that soon just to see.

I know this test is very inaccurate because dopamine varies greatly throughout the day

My opinion only, so take that for for what it’s worth.

First, SSRI’s are a bad idea. The neurological damage long term far outweighs the short term symptom abatement.

Have you tried adding DHEA and a good adrenal support complex to your protocol? DHEA levels are far from optimal, and cortisol is a little high, suggesting slight adrenal fatigue.

Edit… I just saw that you did this test early in the morning so cortisol may not be as high as I originally thought, but it would be worth having another test in the afternoon just to see where it is.

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@bmbrady77
Wellbutrin is not an SSRI (if that’s even what you were referring to) it’s a dopamine & norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor. Much less side effects than the ones that affect serotonin. It’s the same thing as Zyban that they give to people to quit smoking. But I agree SSRIs should be reserved for suicidal people or someone at an extreme low because the side effects (the ones we know about) are extremely harsh.

My cortisol test was taken around 2pm and was 17.6 (AM 6.2-19.4, PM 2.3-11.9). My DHEA-s was 311 (100-415). Can you make any sense from that? Would supplementing DHEA be an option in this case?

I tried wellbutrin at various levels for libido.

When taking 100mg SR a day, on about day 10, I was a rabid horn dog. But it lasted only about 10 hours and never came back. It was the BEST feeling ever. Since that time, I’ve experimented with the drug at numerous levels, etc. All it did was give me a boost in speaking confidence and keep me up at night. So I discontinued it.

I’d try it and see how it works. Cant hurt.

Those cortisol levels are really high brother. I would definitely try bringing DHEA a little higher and getting an adrenal complex. If you do cardio during your workouts (If you workout), drop that for a while. If you drink a lot then you should limit your alcohol intake as well.

Cortisol levels can make or break your feeling of well being, and your body’s ability to gain / retain muscle mass among other things.

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No … I don’t fully understand it.

@sublimeprince32 - Im intrigued by these ratio calculations. My libido comes and goes. In June when blood was tested, it was sky high. Now, for some reason it’s disappeared.

I tried using the online calculator you posted, but it didn’t seem to make sense to me.

I’m taking 40mg eod subq (140mg a week), 4mg tadalifil daily and 90mg armour thyroid for hypo thyroid and nothing else. Been on this protocol for more thand 7 months, so it’s stable.

I’m curious, during my last blood work, I had a TT of 1192, FT of 231 and E2 ultra sensitive of 41.

Trying to take my numbers and plug into that calculator, but results are unclear to me.

What would an ideal E2 number be based on that ratio for my TT of 1192?

What were your bloods when your libido was sky high?

If you have them, you should use them as a reference point to balance your T/E2

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Looks like your T:E ration Is too high. 0.27. Ideal 0.13-0.15. Even if you divide the 2 numbers comes out about the sane. 29 times.

Based on proper ratio, your E should be in the
75-85.9. Crazy high but your test is crazy high too.

If you don’t take any AI and you’re healthy your body will maintain the proper ratio on its own.

Also your hematocrit seems way too low for that test level. Why isn’t the super high test making your blood a little thicker?

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Thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

Very limited bloods from my urologist 3 weeks after those posted had me at TT 1080 and hematocrit at 47. He didn’t test for anything else really… So I guess HTC was a bit higher then… But he said 47 was great.

I have no idea why my numbers are this way. I think I’m relatively healthy…5’11", 171lbs about 19% bf (could be lower for sure). Eat a relatively clean diet with a few beers/cheat snacks on the weekends.

In almost 2 years in TRT, I’ve never taken an AI. I’ve dabbled with DIM and those things in the beginning after reading bro science things, but haven’t touched those things in a year+.

About a year ago I was on 120mg a week and having ED issues. Had a TT level around 650 and an E2 number in the low 20s ( can’t find exact numbers). I decided on my own to increase my dose and it’s worked… But for some reason, the libido has sorta disappeared. Could my body just be used to these levels now and I need more?

I’ve always done sub q to avoid too high of an E2 level. Wonder if I need to go IM now to compare feeling and elevate E2? Drop the dose or do a combo of both - drop dose and go IM. Who knows.

My libido was pretty good around those bloods actually.

It was crazy how good it was. I half thought I had some bottles of test that were over dosed because my TT from March if this year on 40mg EOD subq was 604. 3 months later in the same dose TT was 1192! No changes at all.

I’ve moved onto different bottles now and I’m back to lower libido. It’s all pharmacy test, not UGL, so I doubt there was variance in strength.

It’s a mystery to me… But I’m considering switching things up a tad too see if I can get a jump start.

as soon as you switched do a different ester or brand of test, your libido lower immediately?

Do you have any high/low estrogen symptoms that could provide some assistance?

Brand and ester has always been the same, Perrigo test cyp 200mg/ml…it was more of a crazy thought to think the test was different from bottle to bottle as to why my TT was so high… But I doubt that was the case.

Problems I’m having now that i wasn’t a couple of months ago - much lower libido, like much lower… And going limp mid sex/felatio. Just the other night… Making out with wife, playing with each other both very excited…she went down on me and it was great… About 15 minutes into our fun - dick goes limp without warning. From fully erect and stiff to soft. Horrifying.

I did have about 4 IPAs throughout the night… I’ve had beers and been dinner before, So I don’t know.

It seems either my test is too high or my E2 is too low or a combo of both? Something else all together… Who knows.