Don't Say Gay...

[quote]Makavali wrote:
…or you might lose your job!

[quote]Public school teachers in Tennessee could lose their tenure or their jobs for discussing homosexuality with their students under a new bill.

The state Senate will soon vote on a bill, known as “Donâ??t Say Gay,” that would prohibit educators from “the teaching or furnishing of materials on human sexuality other than heterosexuality in public school grades K-8.”

The Senate Education Committee passed the bill last week, 6-3.

The author of the bill, state Sen. Stacey Campfield, has been trying to advance the bill for several years as member of the House. But he only got momentum when Republicans won control of the governor’s mansion, House and Senate in November for the first time since the Civil War-era.

Campfield said his bill aims to stop gay-rights activists from pushing their agenda in the classroom. He cited children’s programming that taught homosexuality and said “several” teachers have informed him that they’re already teaching the material.

He also cited cases in Massachusetts and California. In Lexington, Mass., the first U.S. state to legalize same-sex marriage, a couple sued after their 5-year-old son brought home a book from kindergarten that described a gay family. Another couple joined the lawsuit after a second-grade teacher read the class a fairy tale about two princes falling in love.

A federal judge though, threw out the lawsuit in 2007 saying that parents’ rights to exercise their religious beliefs are not violated when their children are exposed to contrary ideas in school. The Supreme Court refused to take up the case.

In California, schools have addressed topics such as gay households, homophobia and sexual orientation for years in an effort to battle anti-gay discrimination. Children as young as 5 are taught about gay issues in some school districts.

“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what’s coming,” Campfield said.

Campfield told FoxNews.com that he has gotten hundreds of letter from around the world that are either hate-filled or asking him why he proposed the bill.

“Schools shouldn’t be advocating for or against homosexuality,” he said.

The Tennessee Equality Project, a gay-rights organization, condemned the bill.

“We believe it’s a ploy to advance a social agenda into the classroom,” Chairman Jonathan Cole told FoxNews.com. “And we think it will create an unsafe environment for kids who may be gay, lesbian, transgender or just have questions.”

Cole took issue with how broad the bill is written, arguing that it effectively prohibits all educators, including guidance counselors, from talking about homosexuality with students.

“So if they witness a kid being bullied because of sexual orientation, how will they be able to deal with that?” he said, adding that the bill would increase the risk of suicide among gay children.

“Why is it that legislators are trying to micromanage curriculum?” he said, charging Campfield with failing to produce evidence that this is a problem in schools. “Why don’t they leave it to local schools boards?”

But Campfield said his bill won’t prevent educators from addressing bullying and that families should ultimately decide when their kids should receive sex education.

“This is stopping the advocating of one point of view over another,” he said.[/quote]

I know some idiots on this board might claim that elementary school kids are too young but the reality is that:

  1. They already know about homosexuality.
  2. Making the topic off limits has a very clear implication that there is something wrong with being gay.
  3. Many students, including elementary students come from households with gay people, including parents who are gay.

This is bigotry, pure and simple.

Although I’d like to think this bill would fail a constitutional challenge in court.[/quote]

Rofl. Sorry, I have this image of you with real tears in your eyes, crying over the ‘inhumanity of it all.’

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

I’m simply stating that this is more than a pragmatic push to raise math and science scores among publicly-educated children (you characterized it as such in your first post). You seem to agree with me on this. It’s about homosexuality as a sensitive political issue.[/quote]

They are one and the same, dumbass - you can’t improve real educational issues - improving math and science scores - if you have teachers trying to push sensitive political issues on children.

It is a pragmatic push - as the bill’s sponsor said, teachers wouldn’t talk for or against homosexuality…they’d just not talk at all about it.

No, there wouldn’t - but whatever the next topic du jour that came up that was a sensitive political issue that teachers suddenly felt the need to “instruct”, that would be addressed. If there was some other topic preventing the teaching of the real subject, that would be addressed.

Don’t try to make unlike things alike.[/quote]

I really doubt that math teachers are throwing gay marriage discussions in with lectures on the quadratic fucking equation. And if they are, they obviously shouldn’t be. That is something that should be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

A lecture on Alexander the Great in the context of a history class, on the other hand? Talking about homosexuality is obviously apropos in particular situations. Making the mention of it verboten is ridiculous and anti-intellectual and will do nothing more than breed adults even more ignorant than you yourself.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

I really doubt that math teachers are throwing gay marriage discussions in with lectures on the quadratic fucking equation. And if they are, they obviously shouldn’t be. That is something that should be addressed on a case-by-case basis.[/quote]

Or addressed in a more glocal policy if there are indications it is happening with any frequency.

It’d be largely irrelevant in a study of Alexander (at that level) and its mention would be gratuitous - which is precisely the problem.

Heh. Yes, I’m ignorant. Hilarious.

As is, forbidding the mention of it isn’t “anti-intellectual” - in fact, it’s the opposite. It is an attempt to prioritize intellectual development to bona fide topics that public education should be in the business of providing.

You have it exactly backwards. A perfect example - making a study of Alexander about sexuality would be prioritizing nothing particularly important about the importance of Alexander in world history. Trying to make non-issues “issues” crowds out intellectual development.

Now, that isn’t to say some don’t want to manufacture a phony “importance” about it - but, as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.

I have to say that upon further reflection, it looks to me like the “material” in the classroom has nothing to do with biological sexuality, but rather the social issue of homosexual relationships.

I would like to know where the “don’t say gay” phrase came from. Over the last 3-4 years that I was teaching, there was a rising administrative issue that the term Gay was being used as a generic negative terms about just about anything, and teachers were “trained” to listen for the word and quiet it as it was a distraction or disruption, except in an elective class about sexuality taught in highschool.

I am bothered somewhat that activist groups want to use a word when they want to and how they want to, but don’t want to let others do so. If a kid who is heterosexual says that a historical figure was gay, like Walt Whitman for example, he gets shut down, but if a gay kid brings it up its ok.

I will also mention that I did find one book in the school library about “gays throughout history” which matter-of-factly listed Saint Paul and King David. Probably donated by someone with an activist agenda. No teacher that I know would present that in class.

Another thing, regular classroom teachers are not supposed to teach about human sexuality, but at the same time, we are required by district, state and federal standards to integrate diversity into our class and diversity standards usually include the terminology race, “gender” ethnicity, and sexual orientation or preference.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.

Timmy, some parents like bringing home sleep over friends, with which they switch out ‘partners’ to, um, snuggle with. Now, I want it clear that you’re not to use the derogatory term ‘swingers,’ ok? You might just upset one of your classmates who has swing…err, alternative lifestyle parents. Did you know swingers are part of history?!

Did people really need to quote my entire original post, given that most of the article linked was pasted within?

Seriously people.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< Given the low wattage of your posts, I’m not sure you’ve earned the right to criticize an educational system until you apologize for the one that spawned you.[/quote]WOW! LOL! I think it’s fair to say that TB’s patience is officially out.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited[/quote]

Did I or anyone else ever fucking say anything about 5 year olds?

My post was, quite obviously, intended to address the older students affected by this. 13 year olds are old enough to hear the word ‘gay’ in a classroom. Don’t put words in my fucking mouth.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited[/quote]

This bill doesn’t affect only 5 year olds.

Can’t we just stick with teh mathz and scienceszzzzz!??

[quote]fcrenshaw wrote:
Can’t we just stick with teh mathz and scienceszzzzz!??[/quote]

Too radical of a concept. Try again.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
ROFLMAO.

You gotta love it.

The Austrian and the, what? Nepalese, was it??? living in New Zealand, who are always so very, very concerned for Amercans and their way of life.

Kinda sad, really, I guess…

[/quote]
I find it rather offensive that you:

  1. Get my country of birth wrong.
  2. Continually bring it up as if it had some sort of relevance.
  3. Associate me with it as if I wasn’t raised in New Zealand.

The sheer stupidity you seem to display is astounding. I don’t know how you are even able to operate a computer if you can’t grasp a very basic fact, which is that American policy inevitably affects the rest of the world.

Kinda sad, really, I guess…

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited[/quote]

Did I or anyone else ever fucking say anything about 5 year olds?

My post was, quite obviously, intended to address the older students affected by this. 13 year olds are old enough to hear the word ‘gay’ in a classroom. Don’t put words in my fucking mouth.[/quote]

It was in the fucking article!

This is my problem, I fucking read them and nobody else does.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
ROFLMAO.

You gotta love it.

The Austrian and the, what? Nepalese, was it??? living in New Zealand, who are always so very, very concerned for Amercans and their way of life.

Kinda sad, really, I guess…

[/quote]
I find it rather offensive that you:

  1. Get my country of birth wrong.
  2. Continually bring it up as if it had some sort of relevance.
  3. Associate me with it as if I wasn’t raised in New Zealand.

The sheer stupidity you seem to display is astounding. I don’t know how you are even able to operate a computer if you can’t grasp a very basic fact, which is that American policy inevitably affects the rest of the world.

Kinda sad, really, I guess…[/quote]

I would only like to know if Chushin qualifies as my e-stalker yet?

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited[/quote]

I find myself ‘slightly rattled’ at the idea of agreeing with orion.

If two batty boys want to play hide the sausage they should keep it to themselves and not force us(or our children) to endorse said practice.

Another point to note: if you don’t mince around in public holding hands, kissing or wearing leather trousers with the seat removed and a Marlon Brando hat we won’t even know what you’ve been up to. Then we can’t discriminate against you. Problem solved.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Another point to note: if you don’t mince around in public holding hands, kissing or wearing leather trousers with the seat removed and a Marlon Brando hat we won’t even know what you’ve been up to. Then we can’t discriminate against you. Problem solved.[/quote]

So be a conformist.

Christ you are thick.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
as a matter of intellectual history, it isn’t of much use except to some bored graduate student looking for a useless thesis to write that no one will ever read.[/quote]

At its broadest level, intellectuality is about seeking and prioritizing truth. Homosexuality is part of life on earth and is therefore a piece of the inconceivably large puzzle that is reality. It is the educator’s task to illuminate as much of this puzzle as is possible. The best thing about this country is its singular ability to refrain from allowing political and moral prejudices to obstruct the freedom to seek and express truth.

This measure would be better suited to the Chinese or Saudi Arabian education systems.[/quote]

Look, I dont give shit what two people do to or with each each other unless of course they frighten the horses, but when my 5 year old comes home slightly rattled because someone felt the need to discuss homosexual partnerships in kindergarden I might get slightly pissed.

Maybe if that situation actually occurs there and a kid actually has two daddies, or mommies, or trans/bi/gay/polygamous/whothefuckcares, but out of the blue?

Hell no, I would like to fuck up my kids myself, thank you.

Yeah, and I am sure it was all done in the name of exploring the world around us, because that is first and foremost at the mind of the average 5 year old, homosexual partnerships…

edited[/quote]

I find myself ‘slightly rattled’ at the idea of agreeing with orion.

If two batty boys want to play hide the sausage they should keep it to themselves and not force us(or our children) to endorse said practice.

Another point to note: if you don’t mince around in public holding hands, kissing or wearing leather trousers with the seat removed and a Marlon Brando hat we won’t even know what you’ve been up to. Then we can’t discriminate against you. Problem solved.[/quote]

Most people who class themselves as ‘homosexual’ here are completely indistinguishable from heterosexual. The mincing queer is an archaism or exclusive to only a few TV presenters. Or maybe it’s a Scottish thing.