T Nation

'Don't Judge Children Wearing Pirate Costumes'

Is there a difference between a boy who dresses up everyday as a princess then one who dresses up every day as a pirate?

We can all recall the princess boy, and the reaction he got here:

when i was on the bus to work today i read this article:
http://www.metro.co.uk/lifestyle/914438-richard-herring-dont-judge-children-wearing-pirate-costumes

Whilst the author intended that article to satirize other issues it reminded me of the princess boy.

I cant imagine a sensible parent allowing their child to grow up exclusively wearing any type of fancy dress costume, be it pirate, batman, cowboy or any other. In fact I am not sure the parents of princess boy would have treated his desire to dress permanently as a pirate the same way as they treated his desire to dress as a princess.

If it is the case that some people will only tolerate children permanently dressing in costumes designed for the other gender, this is in fact an act of discrimination. The fact that this comes under the guise of people trying to be liberal, accepting and non discriminating only makes it worse.

No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

Fascinating. I missed the whole princess boy thing. This is just another example of parents letting their children doing whatever they want all the time (barring something that could be outright hazardous to their health) because it’s so awful to have rules and boundaries and whatnot!

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.[/quote]

Tell that to the Scots, laddie.

I ate at Red Lobster with my parents recently and while I was chowing down on those evil cheddar biscuits I watched a family across the room that had a little girl who kept standing up on the chairs while they ate. Her stepfather (he was obviously not her biological father) would occaisionally lift her out of the chair and say something nice to her to try to get her to sit down. She would just run around to her mom’s side of the table and climb up on another chair.

The little girl was at least 4 or 5 and you think she would have been housebroken by then. Mom sat there like a sack of potatoes and did nothing. Actually she was a very attractive sack of potatoes, long blond hair, wonderful legs and fat ass. He wasn’t much better of a parent, spent probably 70% of his nice sunday meal out with his family either talking on his cell phone or worse yet texting. The rest of his attention was devoted to the baby, newborne and obviously his.

On biscuit 5 or 6 (lost count) the girl had climbed back onto the chair next to her “father” and was kicking him in the shoulder with her little flip-floped foot while he texted. She got in at least 7 or 8 kicks (he tried to ignore the first half dozen) before he snatched her down and finally said something harsh to her and her mom. Even though they were only two or three tables away I couldn’t hear him, so he still had enough control to keep his voice down. They left shortly after.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

Kilts and tunics?

When I was 6 or 7 years old, I wanted to go to school dressed in my Judo Kimono every single day but my parents wouldn’t let me. The idea was that I felt invincible in my Judo uniform, no one could hurt me 'cos I had superpowers. I felt like a superheroine.

One day I stuffed my uniform in my school bag hoping to get changed at school but my mum found the uniform when she was putting some snacks in my bag. I didn’t see that uniform for another 3 weeks, consequently missing 3 weeks worth of Judo training. I cried day and night for that fucking uniform until I got over it and moved on.

Can I judge the parents?

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

This.

You are not supposed to be friends with your children.

Parents are supposed to do the hard shit, like say NO.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

Kilts and tunics?

[/quote]

@Mac and Rock, the boy in the video is not wearing a kilt. And I’d still discourage my kid from wearing a kilt at school, for basically the same reason I wouldn’t let him wear a freakin tutu, because he’d be socially ostracized at best, more likely outright bullied. Do they even wear kilts at school in Scotland?

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

Kilts and tunics?

[/quote]

@Mac and Rock, the boy in the video is not wearing a kilt. And I’d still discourage my kid from wearing a kilt at school, for basically the same reason I wouldn’t let him wear a freakin tutu, because he’d be socially ostracized at best, more likely outright bullied. Do they even wear kilts at school in Scotland?[/quote]

Irk. I guess it depends on how the kid wears the dress or kilt. If he’s a timid bitch then he will be bullied as he deserves. If he’s confident then people will sense his strength and accept him as just an oddball.

There was a granny at my high school. He’d show up everyday with his hair and make up done…stuffed bra and hip hugging jeans…carried a purse too. He would not answer to the name Kevin. He was Amber.

He. Was on the flag and dance teams too. He rocked pep rally with his dancing…did the splits in spandex pants in a solo at half court one year…

You want respect command it.

There are men in suits or jeans and t shirts i can’t look in the eye because they’re cowards.

I know no one else on here will agree…I don’t care either lol

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

Kilts and tunics?

[/quote]

@Mac and Rock, the boy in the video is not wearing a kilt. And I’d still discourage my kid from wearing a kilt at school, for basically the same reason I wouldn’t let him wear a freakin tutu, because he’d be socially ostracized at best, more likely outright bullied. Do they even wear kilts at school in Scotland?[/quote]

Irk. I guess it depends on how the kid wears the dress or kilt. If he’s a timid bitch then he will be bullied as he deserves. If he’s confident then people will sense his strength and accept him as just an oddball.

There was a granny at my high school. He’d show up everyday with his hair and make up done…stuffed bra and hip hugging jeans…carried a purse too. He would not answer to the name Kevin. He was Amber.

He. Was on the flag and dance teams too. He rocked pep rally with his dancing…did the splits in spandex pants in a solo at half court one year…

You want respect command it.

There are men in suits or jeans and t shirts i can’t look in the eye because they’re cowards.

I know no one else on here will agree…I don’t care either lol

[/quote]
You have a valid response however you are speaking of a teenager while Cortes is speaking more of a younger child. One has a developed sexuality and can defend themselves for their decisions. While the other is a kid who is more than anything is probably acting out for other reasons.

I understand what Rock is saying. Some of the most confident, self-assured, go-get-'em dudes I’ve ever met were over-the-top gay guys.

This is far more admirable IMHO than a typically dressed, middle-of-the-road milky white guy who rides the fence on everything and stands for nothing.

But very young kids do need perimeters. In fact they WANT them, and thrive best within them. Confidence and self-assuredness are best developed from the ground up., and that means strong parenting.

Ok. I get the age thing.

But when will the kid learn that kind of confidence if they get shut down every chance they get?
We are talking about ignoring transgendered kids here now.

You all want to create Buffalo Bills and Dahmers and other monsters like that?

If I ever have a son who presented a desire to dress and act like a girl this is what id do

Dress him as he wants

Take him to the mall

Let him deal with all the reactions he gets dressed that way

Take him to the car

Ask him how he felt

If he felt discouraged id explain to him why we named him Kevin…and why dressing like a girl isn’t the normal thing to do. Id then take him to the sporting goods store to pick up some boxing gloves and drop him off at my old coaches house for the afternoon

If we get to the car and he says he likes how he was treated then we would change directions…first to some chick store

Then to pick up the gloves

On the way to my coach’s house I will explain why he needs to learn how to fight…I will then go home and talk to his mom and come up with a way to deal with him…and make shit more “normal” without being obvious to him.

Then we would talk to him about his choice

Go on until he cements himself as a transgenered child or grows out of the thing

Simple for me. I wouldn’t be able to sleep knowing im trying to force someone who is confined they’re female to live as a male

Trying to ignore that one mental illness is just going to lead us to others down the road…

I read the Pirate article and watched part of the “boy in a dress” clip, and as a father of 2 boys and one girl, all under the age of 10, I can honestly say I wouldn’t care a whit if one of my sons wanted to wear a dress or dress as a pirate nearly every day. I’ll add that in my own situation, my kids attend a private school and are therefore subject to the school’s dress code, but when they’re not in school, I allow them to wear whatever they want.

My rules concerning clothing are: nothing remotely sexual (at this point they don’t even know what that means), no alcohol/cig/drug content, they have to dress appropriately for the weather (I’m not going to carry an extra coat around for them because they want to wear shorts in December), and the clothes have to be clean - new socks, underwear, shirt everyday.

If my youngest wants to wear a pirate costume, have at it. The first thing I’m going to do is teach him how to use the washing machine because it’s getting washed every night. How long do you really think an 8 year old is going to keep it up before he realizes it’s just easier to put on a pair of pants and a shirt?

If my 10 year old wants to wear a dress, I’ll walk over to the local resale shop with him and we’ll pick something out.

There are very few ways children have to express themselves. Some do it through sports or music, some through art. If one of mine wants to express himself through his dress, then I fully support him.

Maybe if my daughter gets to wear a ladybug costume every weekend now when she’s 7, she won’t feel like her food intake - or lack thereof - is the only thing she has control over when she’s 16.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Ok. I get the age thing.

But when will the kid learn that kind of confidence if they get shut down every chance they get?
We are talking about repressing grannies here now.

You all want to create Buffalo Bills and Dahmers and other monsters like that?

[/quote]

Again valid questions and points Rock, but as a parent you PARENT. Meaning you are engaged in your childrens lives, you know when a kid is being defiant and when he is seeking attention.

You dont stifle exploration, you structure appropriate behavior.

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
No, there is no difference. Both parents are negligent to the point of abuse, if you ask me.

It okay to tell your kids no.

No, it’s not okay to wear a dress when you are a boy.

No, it’s not okay to dress as a pirate from November to September.

No, it’s not okay to eat nothing but potato chips and twinkies.

No, it’s not okay to drink nothing but HFCS laden soda all day.

When did the simple parental imperative of telling one’s kids NO become such a hard concept for today’s impotent, libertine parents to follow?

[/quote]

Kilts and tunics?

[/quote]

@Mac and Rock, the boy in the video is not wearing a kilt. And I’d still discourage my kid from wearing a kilt at school, for basically the same reason I wouldn’t let him wear a freakin tutu, because he’d be socially ostracized at best, more likely outright bullied. Do they even wear kilts at school in Scotland?[/quote]

Irk. I guess it depends on how the kid wears the dress or kilt. If he’s a timid bitch then he will be bullied as he deserves. If he’s confident then people will sense his strength and accept him as just an oddball.

There was a granny at my high school. He’d show up everyday with his hair and make up done…stuffed bra and hip hugging jeans…carried a purse too. He would not answer to the name Kevin. He was Amber.

He. Was on the flag and dance teams too. He rocked pep rally with his dancing…did the splits in spandex pants in a solo at half court one year…

You want respect command it.

There are men in suits or jeans and t shirts i can’t look in the eye because they’re cowards.

I know no one else on here will agree…I don’t care either lol

[/quote]

Wrong, I agree :slight_smile:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Ok. I get the age thing.

But when will the kid learn that kind of confidence if they get shut down every chance they get?
We are talking about ignoring transgendered kids here now.

You all want to create Buffalo Bills and Dahmers and other monsters like that?

[/quote]

Anytime somebody starts making comparisons like the one you just made here, I KNOW they don’t know the first thing about kids.

The first rule about kids is that they will do everything they can to break every rule you have. They are actually designed to push and test boundaries. That’s an innate learning mechanism. It’s natural, but it does NOT mean you should give in to every whim a child has. That’s just dumb. They don’t know anything yet. You do. You are supposed to teach them, not kick them in the ass as they walk out the door and say, “good luck!”

As ID very wisely states above, kids CRAVE the structure and order and predictability and comfort of a set of mutually agreed upon rules. The ones that grow up into well balanced, creative, productive HAPPY members of society are almost invariably those who have been provided with just such structure and consistency along with a solid education including explanations as to why those rules have been prescribed.

The ones that grow up frustrated, angry, violent, depressed, and despairing are almost invariably those who never received a proper, consistent blueprint for how to function, and thus are not equipped to take care of themselves or anyone else, to grow, to thrive.

We all know this, innately. Even you know that letting your son wear a princess tutu to school is not a wise or even remotely rational parenting choice. A little discipline is not going to turn a kid into Ted Bundy. A complete lack of discipline, however, may have this exact effect.

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