T Nation

Don't Diet/Massive Eating

I’m going to start the Don’t Diet aspect of Massive Eating today, but have a quick question for anyone who’s been on it. I have great plans for all my P+C meals, but for P+F, I’m kinda stumped. Endless salad and nuts doesn’t exactly sound appetizing along with my steak or whatever. Do you think that mixed veggies (broccoli, red and green peppers, onions) sauteed in some olive oil or something would be an acceptable “F” component for my P+F meals, or is the carb content of the veggies too high? Thanks all…

As a follow up, I did some research on carb contents of typical veggies. If I do up a cup of red and green peppers, mushrooms, and broccoli, I’m looking at about 8-10 grams of carbs total. Is that too many grams of carbs in a meal that’s supposed to be P + F? Thanks in advance for the input…

Er…DUDE…P+F is a steak. Or any type of red meat. Or fish/chicken fried in olive oil. eg. 28g P and 16g C are contained within 100g of extra lean ground beaf, fried

Thanks Hark, as unbelievable as it may seem, kinda forgot about the carb content in the protein source itself- I was looking for a side dish or something to eat the steak with. Oh well, guess I’ll just soldier on with no side dish. While we’re on the topic, anyone have any thoughts/recommendations/experiences with this diet? Thanks…

Eat your veggies brother…when eating fibrous, low GI carbs like most veggies, Berardi himself has stated that going over 10g in a P+F meal is not a big deal. I myself have been getting 20g of fibrous, low GI carbs in my P+F meals for quite some time now with good results.

Wait, I just read what I said, and realized I made an idiotic mistake…

I meant 16g of Fat and 26g of Protein are in the meat. Meat has almost no carbs. Sorry about that, man.

Basically, if you’re looking for a good Protein+Fat source, eat red meat.

Ok, I just realized you made a mistake, too. P+F is protein+fat, not carbs. P+C is protein+carbs, not fat. I realized this because you said P+F is “salad and nuts” whereas salad and nuts are mostly C+F…hmm.

Ok…Either you’re mixing P+C and P+F up or I’m a lunatic. Anyway, here are some examples of meals:


P+C: Chicken breast with kale & broccoli.

P+C: Protein powder mixed into cottage cheese

P+C: Fish and veggies


P+F: Steak

P+F: Ground Beef

P+F: Protein powder mixed with olive oil

P+F: Fish fried in olive oil

P+F: Tuna in olive oil

i try to have 10 grams of carbs from veggies in my p+f’s.

Hark, LOL, we are doing a great job of confusing each other, aren’t we? :slight_smile:

What I was looking for was something to eat as like a “side dish” or something with my Protein and Fat meals. In other words, I didn’t want to just eat a steak by itself, so I was wondering if some mixed veggies on the side would be too many carbs to send me out of the limits of a true P+F meal, knowhatimean? Sounds like so far the answer is no- thanks for the info everyone! Any other thoughts?

Meat + veggies is NOT a P+C meal. Part of the beauty of this forum is that we tend not to give out wrong info. Let’s be a little clearer on our facts before we post.

It depends on the amount and type of veggies… I like to eat 200g peas and 100gskinless chicken breast. Chicken breast is mostly P. If I eat on the side 200g of peas, I’ll get an extra 10g of P and 30g of C from the peas alone. I don’t know about you, but I think 30g is quite a bit of carbs.

That IS quite a bit from veggies. I was under the impression that we were talking about cruciferous veggies here. My apologies.

Nick M, I love John Berardi’s Don’t Diet diet. I could live and eat this way for the rest of my life. Probably will.



You’re going to have to make a decision on whether you want to stick tightly with the plan as John laid it out or whether you want to experiment/deviate a bit with high-fiber, low-glycemic carbs. The bottom line is, it’s your decision to make. What John says in his articles is that with a P+F meal you’re allowed roughly 5g of carbs and that with a P+C meal you’re allowed roughly 5g of fat. That gives you a bit of wiggle room.



But here’s the good news. You can probably have all the spinach and/or mushrooms you’d like with your P+F meals. After you subtract the fiber from the total carbs, they’re both just about zero carbs with a little bit of added protein. There are a few other vegetable that fall into that category (low carbs) like celery and lettuce. It would probably help if you invested in a nutritional desk reference ($17) that lists carb grams, fat grams, protein grams and fiber (which should always be subtracted from total carbs).

Yeah Terry, I do need to get one of those desk references. Thanks for the advice, I was looking for someone who knew what Berardi said an acceptable amount of carbs gram-wise was in a P+F meal. 5 G isn’t that bad if you can take fiber out of the carb content- a cup of cruciferious veggies like broccoli, peppers, etc. is only like 6-8 G. Thanks everyone for your help! I appreciate it very much…

Just so everyone isn’t hung up on the 5g figure, as I said before, Berardi has stated in other writings (“The Winning Formula” article, for example) that going over 5g, and even over 10g, is acceptable when consuming most veggies and other similar carbs.

Just thought i’d make a comment on the side dish issue. Spinach, cucumber, lettuce, celery, etc are all very low carb and sit fine with a P+f meal, I find it even helps digestion. Brussel sprouts, broccoli contain a little more carb but are still okay. Peas, o n the other hand are not vegetables. They are legumes, like chick peas, and are very high in carb.
Also, I think that you were correct in the first place with the assertion that nutss belong to a P+F meal. Most nuts, especially walnuts, brazil, and almonds (the best ones for you) are about 50-60% fat. Brazils can be around 67% fat. Carb content is around 10-15% (under 5g) in a serving and almost all of that is fiber and ash. Dr Rosendale (a diabetes specialist and an associate of Dr. Mercola) is a big ‘no-carb’ guy, and he feels that nuts are great source of FAT, and therefore energy. So eat your NUTS.

How are cashews? I know Poloquin recomends them. Another thing, i belive your allowed 10grams of carbs in a P+F meal.

Just thought of something. One thing I do for P+F meals is cook a whole chicken. I buy organic chicken from the local store, slow-cook it, and eat it full fat. It’s great, and because its organic, the ratio of Omega6-3 fats is balanced, plus a proper amount of saturated fats, not to mention a whole host of nutrients contained in the fat and meat that chicken breast just doesn’t have. I also make soup stock from the bones. If you don’t drain the fat off you have a great fat source in homemade chicken soup for your P+F meals, plus like I say, many whole-food nutrients from bones and cartilage that you won’t get otherwise. Cheers.

this is a great topic. would any of you mind sharing some recipies? i love to make stir fry with chicken and rib eye sliced thinly along with red and green bellpeppers, mushrooms and buck choy.