T Nation

Don't Be A Teacher

After 25 years of teaching, having students go on to West Point, Notre Dame, Brown, and becoming dept chairman, I feel I have the right and duty to say: DON’T TEACH.

Be a CPA, a scientist, an actuary…just don’t teach. I know several here are in process of becoming teachers. Don’t. I know its not my business…I just hate to see others suffer.

Realize that you are watching a profession be destroyed by bureaucrats, politicians, and apathetic parents. It will be destoyed and eventually replaced by some sort of technology. Don’t be there to watch it happen.

HH

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
After 25 years of teaching, having students go on to West Point, Notre Dame, Brown, and becoming dept chairman, I feel I have the right and duty to say: DON’T TEACH.

Be a CPA, a scientist, an actuary…just don’t teach. I know several here are in process of becoming teachers. Don’t. I know its not my business…I just hate to see others suffer.

Realize that you are watching a profession be destroyed by bureaucrats, politicians, and apathetic parents. It will be destoyed and eventually replaced by some sort of technology. Don’t be there to watch it happen.

HH[/quote]

reasonable money with very good hours, lots of free time, and TONS of holidays…

sounds okay to me

Hey dude

I?m relatively new at this teaching malarkey but just wanted to share my two pence…I?ve only been teaching for 5 years in a country that doesn?t see it as a professional at all but as a business. I’ve been fortunate to work in classrooms comprised of 60 - 80 students and a chalk board and anything extra I wanted to bring to the class I had to pull out of my ass. I?ve left libraries of materials, good quality stuff behind for other teachers who ignore it and stick to the three teaching methods that fill time quicker before they head off to the pubs and whore houses.

They’ve been little emperor?s in my class who do not deign to learn or listen or sexually frustrated 16 year olds who want their first time to be with a white guy. There have been days when I’ve walked away from class and swore never to go back, to let them go to hell, but gone back the next day, not because of the money (I do another job) and not because of the sexually frustrated 16 year olds but because I love teaching.

In the class there’s at least one kid who sits in the corner or at the back and does all his or her work and laughs at my goofy jokes and plays the class games with gusto. I don?t mean the mindless zealots that are the Asian teacher’s pet but kids who really would flounder and get swallowed up by the system if they didn?t get to see and spend time with someone who takes his job seriously and honestly believes the personal is political; That a person’s individual vocation is also an integral part of that person.

School managers don?t think in these terms, they see every student as a cash cow, parents don?t think in these terms, they just see the grades. The kids are young enough not to have been mind fucked by the commu*** system, their parents or the other little fuckers running riot in the class, those kids need someone who isn?t a fuck up who can help them find their own path and hopefully do the same for others.

The important thing is that you be the best in everything you do, regardless of everyone else - even if the school is run by assholes or the class has only one kid or you end up teaching in a rice paddy, or if teaching becomes illegal or obsolete.

Teaching goes beyond helping someone.

[quote]Chris Aus wrote:

HH

reasonable money with very good hours, lots of free time, and TONS of holidays…

sounds okay to me[/quote]

Obviousy you don’t know any teachers. All teachers have huge workloads they take home after working 8-3 in australia. Ask them when they mark work, keep updated on the sylabus and set lessons. I’m traing to be a teacher and I am not thinking I’m getting off easy because they get 12 weeks of holidays a year.

This is my third year doing this full-time. I love being a teacher, I love my job, and I love my school. I taught in another school that was apathetic to education for my first two years and changed schools. It made a big difference and I’m definitely in this job for the long haul.

For anybody who hasn’t been a teacher yet: you should be one before you tell people not to be one.

I’m not a teacher, but one trend that bothers me in the US system is the tendency to gear all classroom work towards the successful completion of standardized tests. It seems to take all the initiative and individual character out of the teaching profession. Plus, it doesn’t seem like students respond to it all that well because it does not engage them on a human or critical thinking level.

To me, teaching should be less about facts and more about developing logical thought processes, problem solving skills, and social development.

Todd

funy this topic should come up now, I have to decide by 10am tomorrow morning to accept a teaching job in secndary schools (11-18 years old) or stay and forge a career in science. At the minute I’m totally torn between the two.

All my friends who are teachers say it’s blody hard work but the perks of teaching the kids is good. For me it would mean that I would get to coach rugby and ref more often, thus getting me closer to profesional ref level, but science allows me to choose the hours I work, the experements I perform but I know the further I go into research the less lab work I’ll do and the more paper work that will come with it!

I’ve gotta sit down and have a good sturcy think tonight.

just on an off topic, it’s been over two years since I posted here last, I was here from day one and it’s nice to be back.

hey Chris, hope training is going well and those DVDs turn up soon.

STU

[quote]tmanners wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:

HH

reasonable money with very good hours, lots of free time, and TONS of holidays…

sounds okay to me

Obviousy you don’t know any teachers. All teachers have huge workloads they take home after working 8-3 in australia. Ask them when they mark work, keep updated on the sylabus and set lessons. I’m traing to be a teacher and I am not thinking I’m getting off easy because they get 12 weeks of holidays a year.[/quote]

Look i dont mean to insult teachers at all… and im not…

Just for a frame of reference, my mother was formerly a teacher and now a professor of education, my uncle was a teacher, my second eldest cousin was a teacher, my third eldest cousin was a teacher, my youngest cousin was a teacher, my best friends parents are BOTH teachers, my girlfriends mother is a teacher

My uncle also manages to keep down another job and does a ton of extra curricular stuff with the school too but he is a machine so maybe he doesnt count…

The second eldest cousin manages to play semi pro sports on top of teaching…

FWIW, ive done a fair bit of tutoring also which isnt teaching i know…

but consider this…
6+ or so weeks holiday over Christmas
All public holidays
And a couple of weeks throughout the year also…
12 or so weeks all up plus additional days here and there???

Im not saying thats its a walk in the park, but seriously those conditions arent bad… with a reasonable starting wage which on average is comparable with law, economics, accounting, nursing degrees etc

Teachers (especially those early in their career) will have to put a lot of work in dont get me work, dont get me wrong…

Just compared to the other professions ive witnessed… Other cousin is a fireman - works all kinds of shit hours, didnt really have a say where he is living… My brother works in a tire store, needs to lift and move thousands of kilos of tyres and shit every day in a hot warehouse, my dad is an entrapenuer who is currently working 20ish hours per day and is on call 365 days per year…

As a young person in a business you have to apply for holidays, work weekends, public holidays etc which you may not get…

In other fields you might have to work shifts meaning you rarely see your family etc, cant get christmas or school holidays because the more experienced staff get preferance etc…

[quote]tmanners wrote:
I’m traing to be a teacher and I am not thinking I’m getting off easy because they get 12 weeks of holidays a year.[/quote]

hmmm, i guess that grass is always greener on ther other side of the fence.

People without holidays tend to really value them…

I guess other benefits to what ive mentioned above is good job security (which i guess comes at the expence of potential for raises further development etc, )

Just another FWIW, but currently im working shifts… and i would kill just to have a couple of consecutive weekends off let alone a holiday… the effect on my life going from 9-5 5 days per week to shift work working overnight etc and not getting weekends is enormous… massive… but some people do really well on it too i guess

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
I’m not a teacher, but one trend that bothers me in the US system is the tendency to gear all classroom work towards the successful completion of standardized tests. It seems to take all the initiative and individual character out of the teaching profession. Plus, it doesn’t seem like students respond to it all that well because it does not engage them on a human or critical thinking level.

To me, teaching should be less about facts and more about developing logical thought processes, problem solving skills, and social development.

Todd[/quote]

This is a very intelligent post. I see these politicians all the time institute this bullshit — “Wow, look what we’re doing to educate your children!” — and convince most that “That’ll solve it!” They keep offering these band-aid solutions that are pablum.

HH

Depends where you teach. I used to work in a “non-public” school. Schools for throw away kids, probation kids, behavorial kids, etc. Not cool when teachers get hit everyday.

Depends where you teach. I used to work in a “non-public” school. Schools for throw away kids, probation kids, behavorial kids, etc. Not cool when teachers get hit everyday.

[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
Im not saying thats its a walk in the park, but seriously those conditions arent bad… with a reasonable starting wage which on average is comparable with law, economics, accounting, nursing degrees etc

[/quote]

Quiz time Chris (and anyone else) :slight_smile:

Suppose that teacher pay goes up 2% per year but inflation is 3%. How long until you’re purchasing power is half of what you started with?

Remember, there are no promotions in teaching, just more duties. An accountant, fireman, and so on can get promoted. Teachers can’t, unless they go into admin (which is no longer teaching).

If it helps, you can use $30,000 to start (slightly above the national average), and an exponential growth model.

Answer later! Have fun! :wink:

HH

[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
tmanners wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:

HH

reasonable money with very good hours, lots of free time, and TONS of holidays…

sounds okay to me

Obviousy you don’t know any teachers. All teachers have huge workloads they take home after working 8-3 in australia. Ask them when they mark work, keep updated on the sylabus and set lessons. I’m traing to be a teacher and I am not thinking I’m getting off easy because they get 12 weeks of holidays a year.

Look i dont mean to insult teachers at all… and im not…

Just for a frame of reference, my mother was formerly a teacher and now a professor of education, my uncle was a teacher, my second eldest cousin was a teacher, my third eldest cousin was a teacher, my youngest cousin was a teacher, my best friends parents are BOTH teachers, my girlfriends mother is a teacher

My uncle also manages to keep down another job and does a ton of extra curricular stuff with the school too but he is a machine so maybe he doesnt count…

The second eldest cousin manages to play semi pro sports on top of teaching…

FWIW, ive done a fair bit of tutoring also which isnt teaching i know…

but consider this…
6+ or so weeks holiday over Christmas
All public holidays
And a couple of weeks throughout the year also…
12 or so weeks all up plus additional days here and there???

Im not saying thats its a walk in the park, but seriously those conditions arent bad… with a reasonable starting wage which on average is comparable with law, economics, accounting, nursing degrees etc

Teachers (especially those early in their career) will have to put a lot of work in dont get me work, dont get me wrong…

Just compared to the other professions ive witnessed… Other cousin is a fireman - works all kinds of shit hours, didnt really have a say where he is living… My brother works in a tire store, needs to lift and move thousands of kilos of tyres and shit every day in a hot warehouse, my dad is an entrapenuer who is currently working 20ish hours per day and is on call 365 days per year…

As a young person in a business you have to apply for holidays, work weekends, public holidays etc which you may not get…

In other fields you might have to work shifts meaning you rarely see your family etc, cant get christmas or school holidays because the more experienced staff get preferance etc…
[/quote]

Well thats life isnt it? I wouldnt say teaching is bad, but the shit you got to put up with is. Dealing with children is important and is not a 9-5 job, and you have to work almost 7 days a week, based on correcting and preparation. You get summer, wow, thats good, but if you compare the job to other desk jobs, and I wouldnt comparing it to being a cop or fireman, because different jobs have different needs and you dont need a university degree to become a fireman. It seems that it would make sense that more schooling= better conditions and or better pay. The lack of good parenting today makes teaching that much harder. If you discipline a child for being a piece of shit, you have to deal with your boss and the childrens parents. In general I would say teaching like any other job has its perks and its drawbacks. All I know is that it is underpaid, but I dont want to get that argument started again. Teachers seem to be disrespected by alot of people, yet I feel you should respect them and support them, because they end up having to raise your damn children for you, while your too busy to even spend time with them. Children in the school system have parents who feel their child is never wrong. Or act like, " ohh the poor child". This is the atitude children are being raised with. Dont punish the child for doing bad things, instead feel sorry for the kid. I think I would explode if I were a teacher and murder half the kids, thus I think I will choose another career…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This is a very intelligent post. I see these politicians all the time institute this bullshit — “Wow, look what we’re doing to educate your children!” — and convince most that “That’ll solve it!” They keep offering these band-aid solutions that are pablum.

HH
[/quote]

From my way of thinking, schools would be soooo better of it education could get out of government control. Usually the fastest way to screw something up is to let the government run things. Having worked with people from other countries, it appears to me that our schools are among the worst in the developed world. But our universites are considered one of the best, if not the best. What’s the difference? Government controls one, not the other.

Isn’t the education required to teach pretty much a joke? Most of the education majors I know take jack shit for courses and they all get jobs teaching when they graduate. I guess I don’t see the point in taking classes to learn how to teach if you haven’t learned anything to teach.

[quote]tmanners wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:

HH

reasonable money with very good hours, lots of free time, and TONS of holidays…

sounds okay to me

Obviousy you don’t know any teachers. All teachers have huge workloads they take home after working 8-3 in australia. Ask them when they mark work, keep updated on the sylabus and set lessons. I’m traing to be a teacher and I am not thinking I’m getting off easy because they get 12 weeks of holidays a year.[/quote]

Boo fucking hoo. You consider 8-3 with a lunch a huge workload? It’s a good thing you’re going to be a teacher, because the real world would swallow you whole.

High school teachers in the States work roughly 7-3 each day. The first 40 min and the last 30 min of each day are free. The teachers teach 6 out of 8 periods with a 30 minute lunch break. So, out of 8 hours, they’re only teaching for roughly 4.5. That’s an extra 3.5 to plan, grade, and masturbate to their little hearts’ content. If you’ve been teaching for more than 2 or 3 years and you STILL have to take work home, then you’re probably not doing much work at school.

I’m sick of these fucking primadonnas that think they’re god’s gift because they’re “educators.” If a true professional wants a pay increase, he can either ask his boss for one or he can quit and get another job that pays better. Teachers just go on strike. That’s unprofessional. If a professional wants better benefits he can pay for them himself, ask his employer to change plans, or find a new employer. Teachers just go on strike. Unprofessional again. If a company wants to get rid of a senior employee because they make too much money or they are losing their edge, they can fire them. If a tenured teacher starts using the same lesson plans and tests over and over and begins to suck as a teacher, he can only be fired if the school’s administrators find a dead baby in his freezer. How is that equivalent to any other professional field?

So, basically, all of you teachers need to shut the fuck up and stop your fucking whining. Nobody cares how hard or thankless you find your job. Speaking of hard and thankless, have any of you fucks (US only) ever found yourselves crying about marking a paper with a red pen, and then you realized that there are men in the desert 15,000 miles away risking their lives to protect our country?

For the record, I know a few teachers, and the only ones that complain about their workloads are the ones that had never held a real job prior to becoming a teacher.

Both my parents are/were teachers. My dad recently retired after teaching for 36 years. The pay really isn’t that bad. Sure he started making around 5k but when he retired he was approaching 60k. I’m sure someone in a business field with that much experience and a masters would be making more, but being a teacher allowed him to have free time to always be able to participate in my activities growing up and actually spend time with the family.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:
Im not saying thats its a walk in the park, but seriously those conditions arent bad… with a reasonable starting wage which on average is comparable with law, economics, accounting, nursing degrees etc

Quiz time Chris (and anyone else) :slight_smile:

Suppose that teacher pay goes up 2% per year but inflation is 3%. How long until you’re purchasing power is half of what you started with?

Remember, there are no promotions in teaching, just more duties. An accountant, fireman, and so on can get promoted. Teachers can’t, unless they go into admin (which is no longer teaching).

If it helps, you can use $30,000 to start (slightly above the national average), and an exponential growth model.

Answer later! Have fun! :wink:

HH

[/quote]

Are you finished crying over your shitty choices in life? If it sucks so bad, why do you do it? Do you want me to shed a tear for you? Would you like a tissue? Seriously, there is nothing worse than someone that expects pity from others.

Also for the record: I do NOT hate or disrespect teachers. I hate and disrespect people that made a conscious choice to do something with their lives and then fucking cry about it to anyone that’ll lend an ear. There seem to be a lot of teachers that do this. I also hate people that claim to be something they’re not. If you have a union, you are NOT a professional. Get over it, or get rid of the union (I’d prefer the latter).

The grass is always greener.

Private industry can suck big time too!