T Nation

Done it All; Can't Get Rid of Fat


I've done the mutations series, the Beast Evolves program, the don't diet method, the low carb diet, the fast fat diet and I kept doing one after the other because I would only lose like 5-6 pounds on each (excluding the waterweight)

I must have spent like 9 months last year just moving from one diet to the next (yes I stuck with them long enough - as outlined in the programs on T-Nation).

I won't complain that I didn't lose weight because I did but at the end of those 9 months I went from 186 to 176 (yes I gained some muscle) And physically I can still see a lot of fat. my BF test came between 14.7-17%

I have frankly given up on losing weight now because i spent too much time on it..each time refining my diet. I am now just trying to pack on some muscle but wht's worse is that If I am not undereating I keep gaining fat back really fast. I am not on a massive eating plan yet either yet the fat is coming back physically. All I eat is olive oil, fish oil, flax oil, oatmeal, fruits, veggies, fish, and chicken. I've restricted myself to those specific meals + some milk and yogurt yet my fat wont stop coming on.

I am really pissed off at myself for failing even after learning and practicing so much, I just don't know what to do next, If anyone can shed some light it would help alot because I am very lost.

current stats:
-years training = 3
-weight = 191 lbs
-bf = 15-18%
-height = 5,8

Current eating plan:
3 fat meals during the day, 3 carb meals during the evening afer workouts

meal 1
-1 brown bread + 1 tbs butter
-1 tbs flax oil, 1 tbs olive oil
-1 cup cottage cheese
-tea + splenda

meal 2
-2 chicken breasts (1.5 cups measured) or 2 Chicken Legs BBQed
-1 tbs flax oil, 1 tbs olive oil
-1 cup green peas
-1 cup green tea

meal 3
-2 scoops whey protein + water (46gs protein)


meal 4
-2 scoops whey protein + water
-1 scoop maltodextrin (47gs carbs)
-green tea + creatine 5g

meal 5
-1 scoop whey protein with 1 cup regular quaker oats + 1 cup milk

meal 6
-yogurt + more fruits
-yellow frozen corn
-tuna fish salad (sometimes during the day as well)

Overall I take in aroud 3200 cals, 300+ protein, 120+ fats, 200+ carbs
-1 tbs flax oil

Wokring out each body part twice a week, 40 reps per body part per session

fast twitch dominant, 1-1.5 hour training sessions

I havbe also started to do sprints in the moring once a week on an empty stomach as well as 2-3 sessions of edurance running.



have you tried gradually reducing calories? some people call that approach "simplistic", wiser people call that approach "foundational".

i find it difficult to believe that someone who consumed high protein/high-moderate fat/moderate-low carb and reduced calories by 5%ish a week and lifted high intensity/low volume (or did lots of cardio; depending on desire to keep muscle mass) wouldn't achieve at least close to 10% bodyfat.

bummer on your situation. with a lot of knowledge and discipline and a little luck you'll one day be where you want.


What method are you using to test body fat that keeps giving you a range of over 3%? If you respond to this that you have not been caliper tested yet are putting this much focus into a percentage, I predict negative responses in your future.


Maybee a diet isn't the right prescription. A fundamental change in habits is what works for most people. That and time.


Basically, I don't buy what you are saying. I don't think you are being honest with us or yourself about your diet. At 18% body fat, the V-Diet should drop about 15lbs off you in 8 weeks.

Have you tried not eating carbs after midday? Have you tried any of JB's guidelines? Have you tried eating actual food instead of all those damn shakes? Where is the steak and the rest of the meat? Where are all the fruit and vege? Where are the whole foods? Your diet actually looks pretty rank when you look at it from an actual food point of view.


Do you have reason to suspect any medical problems? You may want to have your doctor run some bloodwork, a hypoactive thyroid could easily be giving you the problems you list, or you may have an insulin sensitivity problem, so check with your doctor.

On top of that, you only gave us your current diet/exercise. So I'm just going to advise you based on this without knowing what else you've done (you would need to be more specific then just listing the T-Nation program as they are variable).

Basically you say you're gaining too much fat on this? Are you sure? What are you using for measurements? The mirror and scale/BIA are notorious for fluctuations if not outright off numbers. How often are you measuring?

If you are in fact gaining fat I would first suspect that your training program isn't optimal. Would you describe it more? With the little surplus you have the lifting should produce muscle, otherwise it isn't being effective. Try a different program.

Secondly, I would add in more light cardio like walking aka the velocity diet. That will keep your metabolism up and burn mostly fat. Don't go too overboard with the empty stomach HIIT, it can easily cause muscle loss if done to excess.


Thanks for the replies,

I will shed more light on the weightloss issue.

I started off as 186lbs did the mutation series and then the best evolves program which included the fast fat diet and Berardi's don't diet method. I adjusted the #s based on my bodyweight, now I think I should have reduced them more to lose more weight but whats done is done, I wanted to hang onto my mass. when I finished after like 9 months (I took a break inbteween the two programs) I was at 162 and It wouldn;t drop nemore.

So I went back to a normal diet (no I didnt get back in that slow which I realized in a few weeks as a mistake) but I didn't throw back on a massive amount of fat coming off, I went up to 176 10pnds basically in 1 month of normal eating, obviously water weight came back on. The next month or two I did mass training specifically and my weight starting rising and now has reached 191 but I am not watchng my weight to judge my fat, basically the mirror speaks for itself.

I have put on mass, I wont complain about that, I put on mass on a weightloss diet which was surprising. I didn't use calipres yet (please hit me - recommend one that I could buy please!) but as I said I am not watching the % to judge my fat..I can feel it and see it back on, especially when the cloths start getting tighter around the waist and the belly pops out and hangs.

I have read a lot of Berardi's articles and I even e-mailed him asking if fats during the day and carbs after workouts was a good approach, he gave me a solid YES. P+F during the day and P+C meals at nite. I could try not taking carbs after midday but I goto the gym in the evening around 6 pm so I can't get in a proper post workout drink without adequet carbs.

I am starting to drop my calorie % now to see if that helps, I might be eating more than needed although using Berardi's calculator I am buring 3700 cals a day and thats how much I should be eating. I can't handle a lot of carbs well, I get bloated I think and I believe I am insulin insensitive which wiuld explain why Ive been a fatty since childhood eating highcarb crappy diets.

I am starting to reduce my carbs to the 200gs level and increase my fats a bit, I am hoping that will help.

My current training program is rite out of Christian T's Black Book of Training Secrets. I am using the apraoch where I hit each body part twice a week with his recommended body building block for fast twitch dominent individuals. It starts of the first week as 3x8, week two 3x8, 3x6, week three 7,5,3,7,5,3, week four 2x6,2x3. I have actually spent a very long time doing heavy weiught low volume exercises In the 5x5 range during my weightloss phase which is why I am following a 3x8 appraoch because my body is too used to the 5x5 method. I just finished the first 4 weeks and they feel to easy so I am going to add an extra set into the program to intensify it.

I log everything I eat online, here is a list of a typical day that shows how I ate over the last 4 weeks

Bread, whole wheat, 100%
Flax oil
Olive oil
Cheese, cottage, lowfat (1-2% fat)
Chicken, ground
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten
100% whey protein
Apple, raw
Cereals, QUAKER, QUAKER MultiGrain Oatmeal, dry
Milk, calcium fortified, cow's, fluid, 1% fat
Yogurt, plain, lowfat milk
Corn, sweet, yellow, frozen, kernels cut off cob, unprepared

Totals 3203cals

120g fats
270g carbs
304 protein

I have been reading on the V-Diet and it seems to have gotten very popular, but I don't want to go on another weightloss craze again without giving my body some decent amnt of time to gain mass. The V-Diet is the next thing I am going to try once I feel I have put on a bit more mass (I have neglected mass training focusing purely on fatloss for several months - a guy needs a break!)

I do need to buy calipres, ne recommendations?

Hopefully this gives u all a better idea of my situation, I personally think my diet is still at fault and I have to find the rite #s and ratio of foods to atleast not gain ne more fat, I am hopinh u all can help me with that.


It looks like the first things you did in the firts paragraph worked for dropping weight, but then you reverted to your old ways and regained your old mass. Look into maintainance intakes per bodyweight, and quit fucking around.
Sorry to sound harsh, but that lapse into old behavior takes the cake.


Goldin gives a very valid response about the hypoactive thyroid. A female friend of mine had biscally the same situaton as ASIM and could not lose any weight. She did the low carb diet, rode horses all day long and did the Versaclimer 2 times a day 45 minutes each session. Finally her doctor ran a series of thyroid tests and whoosh off came 20 pounds in nothing flat.


Even if dieting, it's a good idea to get your post-workout carbs (preferably Surge), even if you work out in the evening. I also train about that time, and even while I'm working on getting leaner, I still use Surge and eat a meal containing carbs later on (carbs mainly from vegetable sources).

That sounds like a good plan, especially if past experience shows that lower carbs work better for you.

I would suggest using his "Easy Hard-Gainers" program on T-mag. Or, creating something based on CW's recommendations. You need less volume if trying to diet and keep size/strength.

I have put together a three-day-a-week, full-body plan using CW's Set/Rep Bible recommendations. I'm using HOT-ROX, following a sound nutrition plan, and I'm getting bigger, stronger and leaner.

You need more variety in your diet. Where's the beef and fish? Where are the raw nuts and berries? Where are all the veggies? Green veggies especially? You should be eating plenty of brocolli, spinach, peas, green beans, brussle sprouts, zuchini, etc. You could even eat sweet potatoes, tomatoes, mushrooms, and a variety of other veggies and more fruit! Get rid of the bread and oatmeal for now and replace them with vegetables!

You may want to drop your calories a little bit more and get those carbs closer to 200 grams and up the fats.


How would THYROID TESTS cause the weight to come off. DId the said doctor prescribe something to cause a in active thyroid to speed up?


If she testing having a low thyroid hormone production level the doctor would put her on synthroid (levothyroxine) to help regulate. If it was off by enough, she would notice a pretty huge difference in metabolism regulation almost immediately.


To sort of rehash what some others have already suggested.

Drop all the dairy and grains from you diet and replace with meat, veggies, & fruit.


have you tried the south beach diet? there are many books out there on it.


have you checked up on your thyroid?
maybe theres a medical problem.


After some success, you mention returning to your "normal" diet. Isn't that what made/kept you fat in the first place? I think we get too caught up in dieting instead of actually changing our eating habits. This is why so many folks regain lost weight. At least some of your new eating habits must be forever or you will always regain weight.

I'd say if you dropped from 186 to 162 over 9 months that's pretty good (not amazing - but good). When you stopped following these eating habits, you rebounded back up to 191. It seems obvious that you should repeat what you did that got you down to 162. Once you make progress, don't scrap the entire diet just modify it.

As you lose weight, don't forget to recalculate your calories to reflect your new weight. Also, some have suggested that Berardi's calculators are a bit on the high side, so you may want to shave off some extra calories from the final number. For your size, 3700 calories sounds high (if weight loss is your goal).

If you previously lost weight then you know you're capable of doing it again. As someone else suggested, just don't sabotage yourself once you've experienced some initial success. Good luck!


You claim you have tried it all, however, after reading your response to other posts it seems that's not really the case.

It sounds like you have been yo-yoing your diet and your metabolism is probably totally confused. When that happens your metabolism tends to slow down to protect the body from starvation. Therefore you may just need to find a "diet" and stick with it. I hate the term diet. Diet indicates it's only temporary. Eating clean should be part of a healthy way of life not a short term thing. Be patient and quit jumping around trying this and trying that.

Rather than cutting calories I suggest you up your energy expenditure and build more muscle. As some others have pointed out, you need to have a little more variety in your diet.

A thyroid test from your doctor won't do any harm and can rule out a medical cause, but don't count on anything being wrong. Hypothyroidism in young healthy men is not all that common.

STOP OBESSESING! Stress can also affect your metabolism. You're making this more of a chore than it should be. Eat right, train hard and oh yea...Try to have some fun.

Ass Buster


I am going to leave the thyroid test as a last resort, since I know my diet is not perfect.

When I said I went back to a normal diet I did not mean by old eating habits, I went back to eating carbs at a normal level but my food choices weren't junky at all. I did have dairy products and lots of nutts (the nuts i discovered actually gave me a massive outbreak of acne, ne type..even peanut butter) But i ate fairly clean food, similar to the list above but quantities did vary.

As for Berardi's calc, I am starting to discover that it is fairly high which might actually be the result of my current weight gain, I am only in the gym an hour a day.

I definately do need to add more veggies in, But taking out oatmeal etc? Is that a good thing. Don't i need some complex carbs aside from veggies?

I havn't stuck to one diet for very long, that's true..but the don't diet method I plan to follow for a few months, ive been on it for 4 weeks, and now i have started to adjust my cals.

If I shouldnt have carbs after midday do u suggest I take my carb intake during the day and keep my fat meals say after 3pm?

Thx for all the responses, its helping me get my head together. I am going to try and insert some of the changes u all have recommened and see how its affecting me within the next 2 weeks.


Your meals are backwards.

You should be eating your protein plus carb meals in the morning and your protein plus fat meals in the evening.

You should swap these and see what happens.


I can definately try that, could you explain the reasoning behind it, I'm just curious to know how swapping it might be beneficial :slightly_smiling: