Doing Something Every Day

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I mean, if you are capable of performing 100 pullups every single day, there is no way your body is getting any stronger or bigger after a certain point[/quote]
Depends. But even if so, that certain point is a long ways off for most people. Just looking at the total volume is one thing, but the breakdown of how you get there is what causes (and shows) the strength/size gains.

Those aren’t the only two ways to cause an adaptation. Density is a viable route, and probably the most common with “grease the groove”-type training. You end up doing more total work in each mini-session.

And the periodization depends on the lifter. Some GTG-type methods use staggered progressions or a kind of “delayed linear progression”, so you’d stay at one “level” for a few sessions before increasing; other methods do use waves that gradually increase and then briefly decrease the work being done.

If I hit fatigue at the 7th rep in week one, and hit fatigue at the 12th rep in week three, and hit fatigue at the 15th rep in week five, how am I not adapting?

I’m pretty sure that’s called “working out.” :wink: I’d say most “train everyday”-situations don’t mess with the load often, if at all, due to sheer convenience or to avoid one more variable to juggle.

Dan John’s 40 Day Workout is a variation of this. Doing the same five lifts for the same volume in each session, adjusting the weight by feel.

Thibaudeau’s High Frequency Strength Work worked on a similar principle, drilling the same handful of movements at low volume every time you step into the gym.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/hfsw_questions
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/periodized_hfsw

Fair enough. Not trying to bust your balls, just addressing some points made.

[quote]IAmMarqaos wrote:
Also have an old thread somewhere on here where I did Waterbury’s high frequency training and did full body for 6-8 times a week for 6 weeks. Made retarded gains… [/quote]
I’ve been doing Waterbury’s SOB Training recently (every session is squat or deadlift variation and horizontal or vertical push and horizontal or vertical pull and accessory work) 3-5 days a week.

Not totally comparable with what you did (okay, it’s about half what you did, ha), but I’m very happy with what’s going on. There’s definitely something to higher frequency work, even with/especially with big lifts involved.

I really like phases where I do the same lift every day for 7-10 days. Did it with pullups, overhead presses, and cleans.
Also did things like 100 kb swings the first day, 200 on the second and so on up to 700 on Sunday.
I always make sure to never come close to grinding and just let the volume do the work.
Great ‘overreaching’ tool to boost plateaus.

PS: I believe one should not always think of progressive overload in terms of weight added to the bar. Pure volume of mechanical work seems to be a great stimulus for hypertrophy, imo.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Military presses every day. Within 3 weeks surpassed my PR. After 6 weeks added 10% to it (went from 225 to 265).
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
Currently doing 50 bodyweight triceps extensions every time I walk into the gym (at end of session) . Program CT was kind enough to share in his thread. Also do lockouts every time for 3-4 sets of 5 reps. Elbows have never felt better and triceps are getting stronger and bigger (I am on day 10).
Also squatted daily for 19 days in a row regaining 2 inches in size after having been sick for a year.

I echo the fat loss results from doing this…

Also have an old thread somewhere on here where I did Waterbury’s high frequency training and did full body for 6-8 times a week for 6 weeks. Made retarded gains…[/quote]
Well holy fuck that settles it then. I’m just going to do 100 reps of everything every day.[/quote]

haha, start with 50 and see where that leads you!
This might not seem that much the first couple of days but 3-4 days later you will feel the accumulated fatigue. Oddly on day 5,6 you start feeling better and the reps become easier. I have noticed several times now that anywhere between day 10-12 I can a lot more reps per mini-set.

I started out doing the bodyweight extensions for example at 5 sets of 10 and now 10 days later I am doing sets of 18-17.

I did it before with pull ups and started with sets of 3 and four weeks later was doing 4-5 sets of 12-10 and that was at 250lbs with a complete dead hang.

I like Jim Wendler’s advice: start light so you are sure to make your goals.

Start with 50 reps for the first 10 days and then inch upwards till you can do a 100 reps daily. A buddy of mine is doing this with chest push ups and he is quite frankly blowing up. He has his Chest session on Monday (fucking cliche, I know) and than does push ups every except Sunday. He started at 25 a day actually. 5 sets of 5 explosive reps and worked up to 10x10 (with very little rest) currently.

Let us know how it works.

Good luck

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Military presses every day. Within 3 weeks surpassed my PR. After 6 weeks added 10% to it (went from 225 to 265).
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
Currently doing 50 bodyweight triceps extensions every time I walk into the gym (at end of session) . Program CT was kind enough to share in his thread. Also do lockouts every time for 3-4 sets of 5 reps. Elbows have never felt better and triceps are getting stronger and bigger (I am on day 10).
Also squatted daily for 19 days in a row regaining 2 inches in size after having been sick for a year.

I echo the fat loss results from doing this…

Also have an old thread somewhere on here where I did Waterbury’s high frequency training and did full body for 6-8 times a week for 6 weeks. Made retarded gains…[/quote]
Well holy fuck that settles it then. I’m just going to do 100 reps of everything every day.[/quote]

By the way, your back has gotten huge! Well done!

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I mean, if you are capable of performing 100 pullups every single day, there is no way your body is getting any stronger or bigger after a certain point[/quote]
Depends. But even if so, that certain point is a long ways off for most people. Just looking at the total volume is one thing, but the breakdown of how you get there is what causes (and shows) the strength/size gains.

Those aren’t the only two ways to cause an adaptation. Density is a viable route, and probably the most common with “grease the groove”-type training. You end up doing more total work in each mini-session.

And the periodization depends on the lifter. Some GTG-type methods use staggered progressions or a kind of “delayed linear progression”, so you’d stay at one “level” for a few sessions before increasing; other methods do use waves that gradually increase and then briefly decrease the work being done.

If I hit fatigue at the 7th rep in week one, and hit fatigue at the 12th rep in week three, and hit fatigue at the 15th rep in week five, how am I not adapting?

I’m pretty sure that’s called “working out.” :wink: I’d say most “train everyday”-situations don’t mess with the load often, if at all, due to sheer convenience or to avoid one more variable to juggle.

Dan John’s 40 Day Workout is a variation of this. Doing the same five lifts for the same volume in each session, adjusting the weight by feel.

Thibaudeau’s High Frequency Strength Work worked on a similar principle, drilling the same handful of movements at low volume every time you step into the gym.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/hfsw_questions
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/periodized_hfsw

Fair enough. Not trying to bust your balls, just addressing some points made.

[/quote]

The problem with your analysis is that you’re addressing the points of trainee’s history between A) being far from capable of performing 100 pullups a day and B) actually being able to do/doing 100 pullups a day. Obviously, if you are not capable of of doing 100 in a day, actively working toward that goal means you are getting bigger and stronger to some extent.

However, I’m addressing this in the specific context of csulli, who from what I can gather, either has in the past or already is performing 100 pullups a day. Furthermore, I was addressing his specific example of 100 pull-ups a day to increase back strength as a means to aid in the deadlift.

So, respectfully, I don’t think your points about increasing volume are valid, because that wasn’t the question presented. The question PRESUMES you are already capable of hitting those numbers.

And I do think high frequency methods work, but even you admit that Thibaudeau’s program is much lower volume, and Dan John’s program advocates that, at some point, you increase load.

Neither of those programs, as I understand it, advocate 100 reps of the same movement every day without increasing load as a means to become stronger.

If I can do 100 pushups in a single session right now, and I do 100 pushups every day from now until October 30, 2014, do you think my bench will improve? Do you think anything will improve other than my ability to do 100 pushups in a single session?

100s a day are going to be awesome for maintaining general work capacity, prehab (I love facepulls, FWIW) and GPP, but I just can’t see any serious carry over to anything else once you get good at doing 100xday. Training has to be dynamic in order to make improvements.

[quote]ParagonA wrote:
PS: I believe one should not always think of progressive overload in terms of weight added to the bar. Pure volume of mechanical work seems to be a great stimulus for hypertrophy, imo.
[/quote]

Very good point. I could not agree more. Having tiny joints it is not always possible for me to add weight and/or reps BUT I can always add more sessions even if it is just a few sets on the ‘off’ days.

[quote]The_Jed wrote:
Being cursed with narrow shoulders I’m always on the lookout for ways to grow some delts. I read somewhere that Arny did lateral raises daily so that’s what I did for a while. I should start doing that again…[/quote]

Try Shoulder Press Push Ups. 50 after each training session, Can do those at home too as a second session!

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
[/quote]

You fool. You wasted 21 days when you could have had the same growth in one day with Poliquin’s One-Day Arm Cure.

Imagine if you would have done his program every day for those 21 days. You would have added 15.75 inches to your arm!

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Obviously, if you are not capable of of doing 100 in a day, actively working toward that goal means you are getting bigger and stronger to some extent.[/quote]
Everybody can do 100 reps of whatever in a day. How that 100 is broken down into mini-sessions will be the deciding factor in what happens to their strength, body, conditioning, etc. Doing 1x10 ten times a day will be different than doing 4x25 before bed, which is different than knocking out 1x100 before breakfast.

So you were addressing csulli specifically, and I was addressing the idea in general.

I suppose I did focus more on the “every day” part, which would require the attention to volume, rather than the “ultra-high rep” part.

I didn’t see that as a presumption at all. I think you’re presuming it was presumed.

I can agree with this, if we’re talking about something like 1x100.

Once you get up to that 100 in a row, sure. But, I’d still say that the progress of getting to that many in a single set is certainly sufficient to cause other improvements.

But it comes back the reason why someone’s doing 100+ reps everyday. For prehab, doing pullaparts for 3x33-34 (to make the math right) with a light or mini band might be the right call. For size, doing pullaparts five times a day for 2x10 with an average or heavier band would be more appropriate. Both put the body through “100 reps a day” of the given exercise. As with all training, the goal should determine the details.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Obviously, if you are not capable of of doing 100 in a day, actively working toward that goal means you are getting bigger and stronger to some extent.[/quote]
Everybody can do 100 reps of whatever in a day. How that 100 is broken down into mini-sessions will be the deciding factor in what happens to their strength, body, conditioning, etc. Doing 1x10 ten times a day will be different than doing 4x25 before bed, which is different than knocking out 1x100 before breakfast.

So you were addressing csulli specifically, and I was addressing the idea in general.

I suppose I did focus more on the “every day” part, which would require the attention to volume, rather than the “ultra-high rep” part.

I didn’t see that as a presumption at all. I think you’re presuming it was presumed.

I can agree with this, if we’re talking about something like 1x100.

Once you get up to that 100 in a row, sure. But, I’d still say that the progress of getting to that many in a single set is certainly sufficient to cause other improvements.

But it comes back the reason why someone’s doing 100+ reps everyday. For prehab, doing pullaparts for 3x33-34 (to make the math right) with a light or mini band might be the right call. For size, doing pullaparts five times a day for 2x10 with an average or heavier band would be more appropriate. Both put the body through “100 reps a day” of the given exercise. As with all training, the goal should determine the details.[/quote]

Your point about training density is well taken and I should have said that in my last post.

Pullups are a unique beast for this example, though, because it would be a rare thing to say the least to see someone perform 100 unbroken dead hang pull ups, meaning training density will almost always come into play for those.

But things like band pull aparts, face pulls, curls, what have you, are all going to be easily accomplished even after you reach maximum training density (100x unbroken). In order to increase performance in that movement, you will need to add volume or loading. There’s no other way around it.

And even then, you have to wonder WHY you would be doing such a thing. I look at training as having a goal, rather than being the goal in and of itself. Every movement and training parameter should have a specific relationship with your training goal. If you want to be the unbroken pullup champion, it makes a lot of sense. If you are trying to improve your deadlift it makes less sense. The movements are very different, so you can’t train it as a SPP movement. At best, it would be an accessory/assistance. And in that context, It makes little sense to do the movement 100x a day every day and only worry about training density. To me, that sounds like a greater emphasis on GPP and work capacity than on improving SPP or even related musculature.

Now, if you are just doing things to do it - then everything works. So, there can be no failure. Yes, training pullups, regardless of density, every day is “working out” and you will be in “better shape” than you were before. If you are increasing your training density, you will see benefit in hypertrophy, too. In a certain context, everything “works”

But, as Csulli alluded to in his second post, if doing 100s a day is such killer method for everything, why not just do all your compound movements 100x a day, every day?

Had a phase when I was on vacation for a month where I did 100 reps of ab wheel every day (this was the summer before high school). I did that because someone told me that doing that exercise would make me stronger all over and prepare me for football, which I’m not sure it did really but it gave me some good abs and now I don’t need to really train them that much. I believe it worked really well for me because I was young and because I wasn’t training anything else at the time. Not sure I would recommend that now since it could hurt your lower back.

Thanks much for the responses guys.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Military presses every day. Within 3 weeks surpassed my PR. After 6 weeks added 10% to it (went from 225 to 265).
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
Currently doing 50 bodyweight triceps extensions every time I walk into the gym (at end of session) . Program CT was kind enough to share in his thread. Also do lockouts every time for 3-4 sets of 5 reps. Elbows have never felt better and triceps are getting stronger and bigger (I am on day 10).
Also squatted daily for 19 days in a row regaining 2 inches in size after having been sick for a year.

I echo the fat loss results from doing this…

Also have an old thread somewhere on here where I did Waterbury’s high frequency training and did full body for 6-8 times a week for 6 weeks. Made retarded gains…[/quote]
Well holy fuck that settles it then. I’m just going to do 100 reps of everything every day.[/quote]
LOL

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
[/quote]

You fool. You wasted 21 days when you could have had the same growth in one day with Poliquin’s One-Day Arm Cure.

Imagine if you would have done his program every day for those 21 days. You would have added 15.75 inches to your arm![/quote]

I am sorry :frowning: Now I know better. Won’t happen again, I promise.

All kidding aside. That was actually Poliquin’s super compensation program I had based that on. Even at a very high bodyweight I could never get my arms to 19" and this program took me there.
I trained them 21 days in a row till I lost strength and size then took a week off in which I ate everything that wasn’t nailed down to the floor and in the two weeks following my arms grew to 19" and they stayed there. Strength went up big time as well. My close grip bench press went to 5 sets of 5 with 315lbs.

Surprised the hell out of me 'cause I never thought much of Poliquin. However, Waterbury convinced me of the benefits of higher frequency training and so I tried it figuring: “what have I got to lose?”. Even now, 35lbs lighter, my arms are still a tad over 18".

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
[/quote]

You fool. You wasted 21 days when you could have had the same growth in one day with Poliquin’s One-Day Arm Cure.

Imagine if you would have done his program every day for those 21 days. You would have added 15.75 inches to your arm![/quote]

I am sorry :frowning: Now I know better. Won’t happen again, I promise.

All kidding aside. That was actually Poliquin’s super compensation program I had based that on. Even at a very high bodyweight I could never get my arms to 19" and this program took me there.
I trained them 21 days in a row till I lost strength and size then took a week off in which I ate everything that wasn’t nailed down to the floor and in the two weeks following my arms grew to 19" and they stayed there. Strength went up big time as well. My close grip bench press went to 5 sets of 5 with 315lbs.

Surprised the hell out of me 'cause I never thought much of Poliquin. However, Waterbury convinced me of the benefits of higher frequency training and so I tried it figuring: “what have I got to lose?”. Even now, 35lbs lighter, my arms are still a tad over 18".

[/quote]

What kind of volume did you use and how did you fit it in with the rest of your training?

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
And even then, you have to wonder WHY you would be doing such a thing. I look at training as having a goal, rather than being the goal in and of itself. Every movement and training parameter should have a specific relationship with your training goal.[/quote]
I think this is pretty much the bottom line, and we definitely agree on it. We kinda read the OP differently and responded from different perspectives. No harm done.

Maybe not every day, but it’s worth trying twice a week for six weeks. Thus sayth Overlord Wendler. :wink:

I know personally my body responds best to high frequency training.

I have been doing pull-ups 5x per week after reading the recent “Pull-Up Challenge” article.

When I started, I could do 15 strict from a dead hang. I could also do 8 reps with a 45 lbs on a dip belt.

I started and I did 5 sets of 10 throughout the day for 3 days. 1 day I did 5 sets of weighted pull-ups (neutral grip) for 6-8 reps. I started with 35 lbs. Then on the 4th day I did a “as much reps as possible within 10 minutes”. I did nothing after the weighted day and the challenge day.

The next week, I did sets of 11 for three days, and the weighted day went to 40 lbs. This week I’m upping it to 12 reps, then 45 lbs, then of course trying to beat the challenge day by a few reps.

It’s going GREAT. I found the key is to start light, and progress a little every week. Either with reps, or weight or total reps with the challenge day. If it goes well I may do a thread after 60 days. The goal is to gain strength and .5" on my arms.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
And even then, you have to wonder WHY you would be doing such a thing. I look at training as having a goal, rather than being the goal in and of itself. Every movement and training parameter should have a specific relationship with your training goal.[/quote]
I think this is pretty much the bottom line, and we definitely agree on it. We kinda read the OP differently and responded from different perspectives. No harm done.

Maybe not every day, but it’s worth trying twice a week for six weeks. Thus sayth Overlord Wendler. :wink:

[/quote]

Yes, definitely no harm done. Sorry if I was overly argumentative - I have a tendency to do that. For the most part, I agree with where you are coming from.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Did an arm training program for 21 days straight and added 3/4 of an inch
[/quote]

You fool. You wasted 21 days when you could have had the same growth in one day with Poliquin’s One-Day Arm Cure.

Imagine if you would have done his program every day for those 21 days. You would have added 15.75 inches to your arm![/quote]

I am sorry :frowning: Now I know better. Won’t happen again, I promise.

All kidding aside. That was actually Poliquin’s super compensation program I had based that on. Even at a very high bodyweight I could never get my arms to 19" and this program took me there.
I trained them 21 days in a row till I lost strength and size then took a week off in which I ate everything that wasn’t nailed down to the floor and in the two weeks following my arms grew to 19" and they stayed there. Strength went up big time as well. My close grip bench press went to 5 sets of 5 with 315lbs.

Surprised the hell out of me 'cause I never thought much of Poliquin. However, Waterbury convinced me of the benefits of higher frequency training and so I tried it figuring: “what have I got to lose?”. Even now, 35lbs lighter, my arms are still a tad over 18".

[/quote]

What kind of volume did you use and how did you fit it in with the rest of your training? [/quote]

I did 6-8 sessions a week (Sat and Sun were 2/day) and each and every session I started with one mass exercise: Squats, power cleans, DB Snatches, Deadlift, Snatch, etc. 3 sets of 20 reps.
I followed this with a regular arm training program. 3-4 exercises for biceps and triceps with varying set/rep protocols ala Waterbury.

AM: 6x4 PM 4x12 for example. Other days I did 10x10 or 4x24 reps. I was all over the place but would basically alternate heavy, light and medium days. Volume was at least 12 sets per bodypart.

After the session I did farmer’s walks or heavy stair walks or DB swings for 5 minutes.

That’s it. A lot of work but oddly enough after 4-5 days you feel pumped all the time and the sessions get easier and easier. I actually gained strength and size after 7-9 days and only got ‘overtrained’ after 17 days.

The program called for loss of size and strength and a feeling of malaise. That happened on day 20 so I ended the program on day 21.

After 5 days of rest the gains that followed were nothing short of spectacular.