T Nation

Doing Program after Program from the Forever Book


#1

Hello,

So what’s recommended. When I do for example Coffinworm… Should i keep repeating that as long as i progress? Or is it ok to switch program, each time you did 2 leaders & 1 anchor f.e.?

I would like basically to make a long term plan, using the current programs from the new book.

What do you think of this? Going from more volume, mediocre intensity to lower volume , higher intensity and repeat.

SVR2 ==> Coffinworm ==> BBS challenge ==> Strength challenge from Beyond book.

This would take 12 cycles. Is this an ok plan? If i would like to try something like long term planning?

How would you people f.e. plan a year of Wendler, using the different programs? (Best for Strength that is)

BTW i noticed Coffinworm and BBS challenge and Strength challenge may all be done with 90 % tm . Is it ok to change from 85 to 90 according to program? Or should I stick to 85 and keep it at that? Cause the Strength challenge is following 90 % if I look at it in the Beyond Book.

Thx for answering any of my questions


#2

Unless otherwise stated in the book, you can run any program you want as many times as you want if you’re seeing progress.

Sounds like you’ve basically described block periodization using 5/3/1 programs. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work if they’re followed intelligently.

That seems fine, if you’re into long term planning, go for it.

I’m going to run 5/3/1 programming this entire year. I’m going to plan it by doing 2 leader/1 anchor, assess my progress and life situation, and pick the next template. Long term plans aren’t really my thing and that’s why I like the flexibility of Jims work.

It is okay to adjust your TM from program-to-program depending on what it calls for. There are plenty of reasons to do so.


#3

Check out the Widowmaker Circuit (around page 225 or so). I’m on the second cycle, and it’s an awesome way to train. Each workout has a PR set followed by a Widowmaker, but because there is no further supplemental barbell work it’s easy to get motivated for these big sets. Also, I really like the circuit-style assistance, and the flexibility it offers in terms of mentally dividing up your workout. For example, sometimes I can sneak in the barbell workout at lunch (only takes ~25 minutes), and then do the circuit at home that night (takes about 20 minutes, and I have rings which are great for dips, rows, etc…) I would say this is the “most fun” of the 531 programs I’ve tried. After this, my plan is to go back to Krypteia, which I would say gives the most bang for the buck for your training time.


#4

I’ve read a lot about krypteia. People seem to get sick progress on it. Though it doesn’t seem that much intensity on paper. But for me I like to keep training 4 days a week. Just like to be present in gym, giving it my all. And krypteia has except for one phase, only 3 days a week of training. I bet it is hardcore because of time limit. But I like a bit more variation and frequency. Thx for the tip tho


#5

That’s the key right there!


#6

When my schedule allows it, I’ve usually liked being in the gym as often as possible and really liked the 4 day schedule too, for the same reasons- habit, frequency, variation, etc. I’d still recommend giving Krypteia a try, though. It was the first time I’ve done a program that hits you hard enough on training that you don’t WANT to be in there any more often than you’re supposed to. Once I finished it, none of the other programs looked as crazy on paper anymore.


#7

Add an extra day for conditioning


#8

Yeah you shouldn’t pick a program because of the number of days a week it is. You should pick the one that gives you the best results.


#9

I think Jim mentioned here around that he recommends strictly planning all phases only for actual athletes between in season and off season periods and such, while it’s not necessary for recreational lifters cause life happens and more often than not you’ll derail from your plan.

I’d say, pick what you want to do based on your goal, have a good enough idea of what you want without being overly strict, while allowing some room to play by ear in case life happens and you have to improvise a bit.

I’ve done a few different programs by now and all of them worked, there’s really not “teh best”, run the ones that flow better with your training style and life schedule - in terms of number of days, full body vs split, generic goal and so on.

I know I want to take about 6 months to bulk and work on size once I’m done with the program I’m running, so 2 full cycles with BBB are a no brainer.
I also came to the (obvious) conclusion that 5’s Pro + FSL is your trusted ally whenever you need - allows you to maintain your current level when life or job get shitty and take too much out of you to push your training, sometimes the reduction in both intensity and volume results in actual progress on your lifts too.
Leviathan is great for strength.
I suck at squatting 3/week in full body routines.
You can play around some time switching programs and see what you like the most and what works better (sometimes the two things go hand in hand, sometimes they don’t), but unless you do something incerdibly dumb you should be able to progress on all of them to some degree.


#10

I actually came from a 6 day week schedule. With 1 light day with all 3 compounds,. Around 70 rm. 1 day upper hypertrophy. 1 day strength squat and bench. And 2 pr days dead, bench, squats and accessories.
So that was like 4 days a week pressing, 3 days squatting and 2 days deadlifting. I made beautiful progress on squats and bench.
In 4 weeks I increased my bench from 140 kg x 2 to 140 kg x 5. Squats from 130 x 2 to 130 kg x 5. Deadlifts stalled though, actually regressed a bit. So what I made of this is that high frequency pressing works for me. Squats 3 days a week were too straining. So guess 2 days are better. And dead I respond better to once a week. I had most progress on my dead when I did wendler, before straying of the path.
But though my progress was good on the other program (Layne norton BTW) i got hurt and took too much out of me. Guess that explains my dead problems.

So actually you say 5pro and fsl 5x5 is enough to maintain strength when I’m short on time one day?

BTW I actually did my 2nd day svr2 now. On my 90 % top set, I’m hitting 8 reps. I use 85 tm. Is that OK for number of reps? I used a tm I can hit 5 reps with. Are there any ideal numbers to hit? Or as long as I get tm x 5 I’m OK?

One more question. Say I wanna peak once during a training year? How do you implement that in program? Do you use the deload week for that? Or after deload week?

Many quest I know, but I wanna take the perfect route to great results.


#11

5’s Pro and 5x5FSL is fine imho for when you’re short on time. Another option would be 5’s Pro/PR sets followed by Widowmakers, if you’re short on time but still want to push. Supersetting assistance work with main and supplemental work is another great way to keep work density high while saving time.
One of my latest bench workout had me superset bench (working up to TMx1) and barbell row, followed by 5x5SSL bench superset with barbell row, followed by 50 dips superset with face pulls and curls. Took me one hour to get to the gym, change, warm up, do the work, shower and get out of the gym.

Beyond has some peaking options IIRC. Or any well known and proven peaking protocol out there - don’t know much about peaking, if I had to I’d finish my training cycle, deload, head into the peaking cycle, test 1RMs, deload again and start back training as usual.
I wouldn’t use my peak 1RMs to calculate my 5/3/1 TMs tho, I’d rather use regular everyday gym lifts.


#12

beyond1.1 >beyond1.2> Beach body Challenge
=crazy gains


#13

Forget to ask but out of curiosity, how come your bench is higher than your squat?

I’m probably dumb as fuck but I’m unsure - beyond 1.1 has 5 training weeks but earlier in the article it mentions a 20 week program, is the rest of it in the book?


#14

Beyond is broken up into 4 parts. Each part is 5 weeks for a total of 20 weeks. They are all on t-nation


#15

Cause I have chicken legs. I did push ups regularly since my 16 years of age. And before I took a 6 year break from weightlifting, I did some regular Bb style workouts, but I only did 2 machine variation for legs à week. Leg extensions and curls. So never squatted since about 8 months ago.

My squats rise fastest though, so will be catching up on my bench soon. Still have noob gains on squats. Also should have for deadlift. But guess I have a weak lower back and hamstrings.

About beyond 1.1 to 1.4 I don’t understand.

1.3. Seems a lot harder then 1.4. For 1.3. Do I need to work up to tm for amrap with the main lift. And after that also jokers and after that also 5 back down sets of 5x5? Seems like overkill.
Or do I read it wrong?
And what about the side bends? Only abs variation I see in the entire 20 weeks. Do you mix it up?


#16

Yeah theres 1.3 and 4 also but I personally dont like them with all the jokers and maxing out -too much margin for error. Very little good feedback on the forums also
Fine I guess if you’re advanced and really know your body


#17

yep pretty much


#18

Understood, thanks.
The Beach Body Challenge is on my to-do list, do you recommend Beyond 1.1 & 1.2 as an entry? I was thinking about running 2 BBB (leader) / 1 PR set + widowmakers (anchor) next cycle to focus on size, then 1-2 BBB (leader) and Beach Body Challenge (anchor), the challenge seems to make more sense as an anchor with the PR sets


#19

yes. great progress reported back pretty much across the board with those two.
What you posted is similar principle so fine to do that also if resonates


#20

One thing I dont like about the challenge. The emphasis purely on the press. As a powerlifter it’s better to emphasis on bench? Or does he mean press,… Choose one?