T Nation

Doggcrapp: Yes or No?


#1

Hello Christian,

First off let me start by saying i believe that after many articles and interviews from you on this sight, i have actually decided to pursue a nutrition and exercise career in college. My major now being Nutrition and Exercise Science. You Have really motivated me and inspired me to become extremely passionate about training. Just wanted to give my utmost thanks.

now onto my question.

i have been training using the Doggcrapp Program to see very good results as far as strength goes. I will admit, some exercises my lifts went up almost 20 percent within 12 weeks (such as squats, big compound movements mainly) compared to only about 5-10 percent with smaller and isolation exercises. although it has been working, i have, for some time now, been researching your method to stimulate the nervous system as you train to induce maximum muscle growth. i find it extremely informative and i am eager to try a program that focuses on this.

However, i just read your interview with Nate green which mentioned a bunch of awesome points about CNS training and auto regulating, etc. I was wondering if there was a way i could incorporate this type of training somehow into Doggcrapp? i know you said that overtraining is very possible with more than one body part if you give it equal attention, so does that mean that doggcrapp is flawed because it focuses on 5 body parts each workout?

i know its just one set (some being rest pause technique)per bodypart so it would seem like not enough to overtrain, but if incorporated with CNS activation would that be overtraining? maybe i should just start a different program? or wait for the ever anticipated I_bodybuilder project. If you get the time to answer this question I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your knowledge and your time.


#2

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hello Christian,

First off let me start by saying i believe that after many articles and interviews from you on this sight, i have actually decided to pursue a nutrition and exercise career in college. My major now being Nutrition and Exercise Science. You Have really motivated me and inspired me to become extremely passionate about training. Just wanted to give my utmost thanks.

now onto my question.

i have been training using the Doggcrapp Program to see very good results as far as strength goes. I will admit, some exercises my lifts went up almost 20 percent within 12 weeks (such as squats, big compound movements mainly) compared to only about 5-10 percent with smaller and isolation exercises. although it has been working, i have, for some time now, been researching your method to stimulate the nervous system as you train to induce maximum muscle growth. i find it extremely informative and i am eager to try a program that focuses on this.

However, i just read your interview with Nate green which mentioned a bunch of awesome points about CNS training and auto regulating, etc. I was wondering if there was a way i could incorporate this type of training somehow into Doggcrapp? i know you said that overtraining is very possible with more than one body part if you give it equal attention, so does that mean that doggcrapp is flawed because it focuses on 5 body parts each workout?

i know its just one set (some being rest pause technique)per bodypart so it would seem like not enough to overtrain, but if incorporated with CNS activation would that be overtraining? maybe i should just start a different program? or wait for the ever anticipated I_bodybuilder project. If you get the time to answer this question I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your knowledge and your time. [/quote]

Im not CT but you know… I feel DC kind of have the same “principles” as what CT as been saying lately…

By this I mean that DC itself is very CNS oriented…


#3

[quote]dayne_lathrop wrote:
Hello Christian,

First off let me start by saying i believe that after many articles and interviews from you on this sight, i have actually decided to pursue a nutrition and exercise career in college. My major now being Nutrition and Exercise Science. You Have really motivated me and inspired me to become extremely passionate about training. Just wanted to give my utmost thanks.

now onto my question.

i have been training using the Doggcrapp Program to see very good results as far as strength goes. I will admit, some exercises my lifts went up almost 20 percent within 12 weeks (such as squats, big compound movements mainly) compared to only about 5-10 percent with smaller and isolation exercises. although it has been working, i have, for some time now, been researching your method to stimulate the nervous system as you train to induce maximum muscle growth. i find it extremely informative and i am eager to try a program that focuses on this.

However, i just read your interview with Nate green which mentioned a bunch of awesome points about CNS training and auto regulating, etc. I was wondering if there was a way i could incorporate this type of training somehow into Doggcrapp? i know you said that overtraining is very possible with more than one body part if you give it equal attention, so does that mean that doggcrapp is flawed because it focuses on 5 body parts each workout?

i know its just one set (some being rest pause technique)per bodypart so it would seem like not enough to overtrain, but if incorporated with CNS activation would that be overtraining? maybe i should just start a different program? or wait for the ever anticipated I_bodybuilder project. If you get the time to answer this question I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your knowledge and your time. [/quote]

I too have been doing DC and love the results thus far. Interested in CT’s response.


#4

[quote]zraw wrote:
Im not CT but you know… I feel DC kind of have the same “principles” as what CT as been saying lately…

By this I mean that DC itself is very CNS oriented…

[/quote]

It may be, but these training styles are very different from one another, to the point where it doesn’t seem to make sense to try to mix elements from one with the other.


#5

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
zraw wrote:
Im not CT but you know… I feel DC kind of have the same “principles” as what CT as been saying lately…

By this I mean that DC itself is very CNS oriented…

It may be, but these training styles are very different from one another, to the point where it doesn’t seem to make sense to try to mix elements from one with the other.[/quote]

Oh but thats in no way what I was stating. Just saying the “big picture idea” seemed to go in the same way (altough I may be completely wrong as I,Bodybuilder hasnt been released…"

Agreed about not mixing elements from one another…

Some stuff still apply tough

Ramping, or feel sets are also done in DC, but with more than 1 rep
Concentric as fast as possible controlled eccentric…

etc


#6

[quote]Mateus wrote:

I too have been doing DC and love the results thus far. Interested in CT’s response.[/quote]

My response is: you can’t argue with results! If it works, it works.

And I’ll give you another answer. In my article I mention that as long as you are always trying to accelerate the weight as much as you can when you lift it, that you activate the nervous system and that you autoregulate your training (go to the max that your body will allow on that day) any program will work.

DC is autoregulated because there is no precise number of reps to do, the total number of reps you can get is determined by your capacities on that day. I do not autoregulate this way, I prefer to use weight as a regulatory mean. But both ways will work.

DC also emphasise a powerful concentric portion.

The only part I’m not sure of is if DC uses activation. I guess that if feel (practice or explosive and progressive warm-ups) sets are used, then there at least some form of activation taking place.

So yeah, it would work.


#7

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Mateus wrote:

I too have been doing DC and love the results thus far. Interested in CT’s response.

My response is: you can’t argue with results! If it works, it works.

And I’ll give you another answer. In my article I mention that as long as you are always trying to accelerate the weight as much as you can when you lift it, that you activate the nervous system and that you autoregulate your training (go to the max that your body will allow on that day) any program will work.

DC is autoregulated because there is no precise number of reps to do, the total number of reps you can get is determined by your capacities on that day. I do not autoregulate this way, I prefer to use weight as a regulatory mean. But both ways will work.

DC also emphasise a powerful concentric portion.

The only part I’m not sure of is if DC uses activation. I guess that if feel (practice or explosive and progressive warm-ups) sets are used, then there at least some form of activation taking place.

So yeah, it would work.[/quote]

We don’t do any potentiation exercises as such, but the ramping-part/feel sets can be done and usually are done by practically every advanced trainee. I guess the cruise-phases sort of help with autoregulation as well, as you do them whenever systematic fatigue gets the better of you/when progress stalls across the board.

I guess with the basic 2-way variant, there just isn’t time for potentiation work or it would end up being too much for a single session… I might try that with the 5-way variant some day though (used for advanced guys who need a break or for guys dieting down into contest shape, for example…) and perhaps it could work on the 3-way.

Still, anyone who isn’t already advanced shouldn’t fuck with the basic formula imo…

By the way… People know that I’ve never been much of a fan of most of the articles and the majority of the authors on here, but I’ve got to say I’m hoping that CT is really on to something with the specific neural activation stuff.

Anything that can give the good old
“most bodyparts(except for the one you may be emphasizing currently) once a week” training an edge is welcome…

It’s just a lot nicer on the joints and tendons when you aren’t training everything heavy 2-3 times a week, and having your compound work spread out like that keeps the systematic fatigue at bay = I feel much fresher outside of the gym, at work etc, need less to no time off and don’t have to stuff myself quite as much just to be able to keep making progress in the gym.

So I’m rooting for you here, Thibs.


#8

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

So I’m rooting for you here, Thibs.

[/quote]

x2, reading a lot from his posts, I’m sure it’s not just another hyped program. I looking to get in my previous shape after october 18 (photoshoot) ASAP (performance and a bit more of size) to test my results on “I, Bodybuilder”.


#9

I don’t think you can incorporate the ramping philosophy entirely with doggcrapp. My understanding is that with doggcrapp, you cut an exercise from your rotation when you cannot beat the numbers you put up for the exercise in your previous session. Your goal here is to beat the book, no matter what, or you lose that exercise.

With the ramping technique previously described, the amount of work you do is based on your physiology for the day. You stop the exercise when you can no longer successfully complete it, regardless of how many sets you have done or if you have beat the previous sessions numbers.

Correct me if I am wrong on anything above.


#10

[quote]MonkeyO wrote:
I don’t think you can incorporate the ramping philosophy entirely with doggcrapp. My understanding is that with doggcrapp, you cut an exercise from your rotation when you cannot beat the numbers you put up for the exercise in your previous session. Your goal here is to beat the book, no matter what, or you lose that exercise.

With the ramping technique previously described, the amount of work you do is based on your physiology for the day. You stop the exercise when you can no longer successfully complete it, regardless of how many sets you have done or if you have beat the previous sessions numbers.

Correct me if I am wrong on anything above.[/quote]

No, you don’t use ramping as your main way of going about your sets in DC, but you work up to your work set(s) before doing them. At least most strong guys and vets do it.
Of course some prefer more abbreviated warm-ups, but those are the minority imo.

So a squat workout on the 2-way may look like:
-135x8
-225x5
-315x3
-405x2
-455x2
-495x2
-535x1-2
-595x6 (heavy work set, some guys do two of those, but that’s just for stubborn legs and I’m not sure if it’s done on the 2-way)… No rest-pause because we don’t do that for squats, deads etc due to safety/form issues.
-405x20 or so (widowmaker)

Some generally go with bigger/even jumps (I did that, most of the time, but as I got close to my work set I’d usually throw in a single or double or two, so that my work set wouldn’t be 60-90 lbs over my last warm-up):
-135xwhatever
-225x5-6
-315x4
-405x4
-495x3
(-535x1, -565 or so x1 is what I’d add here)
-595x6, work set
-405 or whatever x 20, widowmaker

But it’s always multiple, progressively heavier “warm-ups”, generally with descending reps to conserve energy for the work set(s).


#11

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
MonkeyO wrote:
I don’t think you can incorporate the ramping philosophy entirely with doggcrapp. My understanding is that with doggcrapp, you cut an exercise from your rotation when you cannot beat the numbers you put up for the exercise in your previous session. Your goal here is to beat the book, no matter what, or you lose that exercise.

With the ramping technique previously described, the amount of work you do is based on your physiology for the day. You stop the exercise when you can no longer successfully complete it, regardless of how many sets you have done or if you have beat the previous sessions numbers.

Correct me if I am wrong on anything above.

No, you don’t use ramping as your main way of going about your sets in DC, but you work up to your work set(s) before doing them. At least most strong guys and vets do it.
Of course some prefer more abbreviated warm-ups, but those are the minority imo.

So a squat workout on the 2-way may look like:
-135x8
-225x5
-315x3
-405x2
-455x2
-495x2
-535x1-2
-595x6 (heavy work set, some guys do two of those, but that’s just for stubborn legs and I’m not sure if it’s done on the 2-way)… No rest-pause because we don’t do that for squats, deads etc due to safety/form issues.
-405x20 or so (widowmaker)

Some generally go with bigger/even jumps (I did that, most of the time, but as I got close to my work set I’d usually throw in a single or double or two, so that my work set wouldn’t be 60-90 lbs over my last warm-up):
-135xwhatever
-225x5-6
-315x4
-405x4
-495x3
(-535x1, -565 or so x1 is what I’d add here)
-595x6, work set
-405 or whatever x 20, widowmaker

But it’s always multiple, progressively heavier “warm-ups”, generally with descending reps to conserve energy for the work set(s).

[/quote]

EXACTLY!!! And this is ramping… by ramping I am not necessarily talking about ramping the weight (although that is often the case) but about ramping up your capacity to lift weights.

C_C presented exactly how one should train when using high intensity, lower volume work like DC. I’m glad that he posted this because it would have been my answer. And it just shows that ‘ramping’ albeit novel for some, has been instinctively used by big guys.

Except for true genetic wonders or severe performance drug abusers, you don’t get big by accident. In the way you always stumble upon some of the answers, sometimes without realizing it.