Doggcrapp and WS4SB Discussion

[quote]Rampage74 wrote:
…so why just limited yourself to one system…
[/quote]

Tell me this, if you have had your money invested in stocks that are growing at a reasonable rate from year to year and you are making excellent returns on your diversified portfolio, would you, for no reason besides boredom, pull all of your money out of those stocks and throw it into risky small business investments and junk bonds?

Its the same with this. Its not limiting yourself, its sticking with what is working.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Rampage74 wrote:
…so why just limited yourself to one system…

Tell me this, if you have had your money invested in stocks that are growing at a reasonable rate from year to year and you are making excellent returns on your diversified portfolio, would you, for no reason besides boredom, pull all of your money out of those stocks and throw it into risky small business investments and junk bonds?

Its the same with this. Its not limiting yourself, its sticking with what is working.[/quote]

I dont threat my money the same way i worked out…

Go ask people that have all their money invested in Nortel a few years ago!!!but anyway !!

So you like gambling with your time in the gym instead of sticking with whats proven itself to work?

You can get money back. Time is a different story.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
So you like gambling with your time in the gym instead of sticking with whats proven itself to work?

You can get money back. Time is a different story.[/quote]

Of course there only one good system!!everything else in a waste of time.

By the way, if its so good(im not saying its not), why most people are told to not do DC on intensemuscle.com

There is not only one good way…this sound so much like a GURU…sorry but that how its sounds!

I’m not even going to make this about DC, let’s flip to the Westside method of powerlifting.

If I walked away from my first meet ever with 400 250 400 and wanted to total elite 2 weight classes above myself and firmly believe Westside Barbell methods were the fastest way to get there is there ever a reason for me to do 5x5s or Ed Coan’s progressive overload plan or any other system?

If you lift weights for fun and to supplement your MMA training than don’t get bogged down in one system, enjoy yourself. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that people that are on a straight line path to their goals are missing out on something because they stick to one template.

Talk to Chuck V formerly of Westside Barbell and ask him if he regrets not trying out other powerlifting programs early during his career, or Louie Simmons, or Dave Tate or any number of the Westside guys.

Then go a couple hundred miles east and go ask the Metal Militia guys if they ever “change it up” because supposedly their program should have stopped working 3-6 weeks in.

If they wanted to be an 800 lb shirted bencher and strongly believe MM training was the best thing for them… again why do something else?

[quote]Rampage74 wrote:

Of course there only one good system!!everything else in a waste of time.

By the way, if its so good(im not saying its not), why most people are told to not do DC on intensemuscle.com

There is not only one good way…this sound so much like a GURU…sorry but that how its sounds!

[/quote]

Are you even being serious at this point? bold the part where he said one system would work… or even mentioned DC in that post.

What has been proven to work=principles that these two systems we are talking about are based on. Get it?

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I’m not even going to make this about DC, let’s flip to the Westside method of powerlifting.

If I walked away from my first meet ever with 400 250 400 and wanted to total elite 2 weight classes above myself and firmly believe Westside Barbell methods were the fastest way to get there is there ever a reason for me to do 5x5s or Ed Coan’s progressive overload plan or any other system?

If you lift weights for fun and to supplement your MMA training than don’t get bogged down in one system, enjoy yourself. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that people that are on a straight line path to their goals are missing out on something because they stick to one template.

Talk to Chuck V formerly of Westside Barbell and ask him if he regrets not trying out other powerlifting programs early during his career, or Louie Simmons, or Dave Tate or any number of the Westside guys.

Then go a couple hundred miles east and go ask the Metal Militia guys if they ever “change it up” because supposedly their program should have stopped working 3-6 weeks in. If they wanted to be an 800 lb shirted bencher and strongly believe MM training was the best thing for them… again why do something else? [/quote]

look at what i posted just earlier…

STICK TO ONE,BELIEVE IN IT,TRAIN,EAT,SLEEP and REPEAT!!

and i not saying again dc is not good…im just saying there is more then one way to build a strong and big physic!!

but seems some people think its the only way…just read this thread!!

And at the beginning of this thread i also said those 2 workout are probably the best out there…but and i think you will agree…no ws4sb preacher will defend the system until they died…

But anyway im out for tonite…will be fun to read the end of this story tommorow!!im expecting flame!!

Again quote me or someone else saying there is only one way or come up with a better reason to continue this silly argument.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Rampage74 wrote:
…so why just limited yourself to one system…

Tell me this, if you have had your money invested in stocks that are growing at a reasonable rate from year to year and you are making excellent returns on your diversified portfolio, would you, for no reason besides boredom, pull all of your money out of those stocks and throw it into risky small business investments and junk bonds?

Its the same with this. Its not limiting yourself, its sticking with what is working.[/quote]

Did he say there was only one way or stick to one way that’s working? You are reading what you want to read here.

Here’s a suggestion. Nobody reading this should do DC training because it doesn’t work… it’s all a big lie. Do what makes you happy and make sure you switch it up every 3-6 weeks because it’s going to stop working.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I’m not even going to make this about DC, let’s flip to the Westside method of powerlifting.

If I walked away from my first meet ever with 400 250 400 and wanted to total elite 2 weight classes above myself and firmly believe Westside Barbell methods were the fastest way to get there is there ever a reason for me to do 5x5s or Ed Coan’s progressive overload plan or any other system?

If you lift weights for fun and to supplement your MMA training than don’t get bogged down in one system, enjoy yourself. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that people that are on a straight line path to their goals are missing out on something because they stick to one template.

Talk to Chuck V formerly of Westside Barbell and ask him if he regrets not trying out other powerlifting programs early during his career, or Louie Simmons, or Dave Tate or any number of the Westside guys.

Then go a couple hundred miles east and go ask the Metal Militia guys if they ever “change it up” because supposedly their program should have stopped working 3-6 weeks in. If they wanted to be an 800 lb shirted bencher and strongly believe MM training was the best thing for them… again why do something else? [/quote]

This post should have ended the thread.

To whoever said that WS4SB is an advanced training program - I would disagree. I think it is a pretty good intermediate training program.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Did he say there was only one way or stick to one way that’s working? You are reading what you want to read here.

Here’s a suggestion. Nobody reading this should do DC training because it doesn’t work… it’s all a big lie. Do what makes you happy and make sure you switch it up every 3-6 weeks because it’s going to stop working. [/quote]

of course that what i said…read whatever you want…!!!Scott M is the best,the rest Cosgrove,Defranco and many more …your all wrong!!Going at the gym now…some people actually trained.do not just read an post all day!!Waiting for you to flame me…have a good nite!!

[quote]Rampage74 wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Did he say there was only one way or stick to one way that’s working? You are reading what you want to read here.

Here’s a suggestion. Nobody reading this should do DC training because it doesn’t work… it’s all a big lie. Do what makes you happy and make sure you switch it up every 3-6 weeks because it’s going to stop working.

of course that what i said…read whatever you want…!!!Scott M is the best,the rest Cosgrove,Defranco and many more …your all wrong!!Going at the gym now…some people actually trained.do not just read an post all day!!Waiting for you to flame me…have a good nite!!
[/quote]

Grow up, kiddo. Your rants would probably be more effective if you could learn how to spell, and put together a coherent sentence.

[quote]Rampage74 wrote:

look at what i posted just earlier…

STICK TO ONE,BELIEVE IN IT,TRAIN,EAT,SLEEP and REPEAT!!
[/quote]

But, you also said that “nothing works forever” and tried to suggest that, because Alwyn Cosgrove says so, workouts are only effective for 3-6 weeks, then you have to change things up to avoid “adapting”.

You contradicted yourself and you did so because you aren’t speaking from experience, or even anecdotal evidence. You’re just regurgitating what you’ve read and I expect that most reading your posts already knew that.

I’m not trying to gang up on you. This is not a personal attack.

In fact, don’t even listen to what Scott, Stronghold, myself or anyone else in this thread has said to you. Instead, just take a good look around at how the majority (because there are always genetic freaks like Paul Dillet) of big, strong people do to get to that point.

Are they constantly changing set/rep schemes every 3-6 weeks and changing their workouts to avoid “adapting”? Or do the majority of them just focus on progression, eating and resting?

How many champion BB’ers (natural or otherwise) do you think turned their training programs into advanced calculus problems; worrying about things like tempo, constant variation, etc…?

Look at reality, and come away with your own conclusions. My suspicion is that you’ll come away realizing that what Scott and Stronghold have been saying is the truth.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Rampage74 wrote:
Scott M wrote:
Did he say there was only one way or stick to one way that’s working? You are reading what you want to read here.

Here’s a suggestion. Nobody reading this should do DC training because it doesn’t work… it’s all a big lie. Do what makes you happy and make sure you switch it up every 3-6 weeks because it’s going to stop working.

of course that what i said…read whatever you want…!!!Scott M is the best,the rest Cosgrove,Defranco and many more …your all wrong!!Going at the gym now…some people actually trained.do not just read an post all day!!Waiting for you to flame me…have a good nite!!

Grow up, kiddo. Your rants would probably be more effective if you could learn how to spell, and put together a coherent sentence. [/quote]i

Of Course i was expecting some comments coming from a guy who used roids a few times!! as for languange,im french canadian, i think my english is not to bad and my spanish also,how many language do you speak…we can have a really fun game here…at the beginning i was just trying to explained there is more then one system…

i even said dc is probably good,ws4sb also, i believe in using different split from time to time(same as many coach…)but i got some some reply…so mr roids could you tell me a few words in spanish or french or any other language?? come we gonna have fun mr roids!!

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Rampage74 wrote:

look at what i posted just earlier…

STICK TO ONE,BELIEVE IN IT,TRAIN,EAT,SLEEP and REPEAT!!

But, you also said that “nothing works forever” and tried to suggest that, because Alwyn Cosgrove says so, workouts are only effective for 3-6 weeks, then you have to change things up to avoid “adapting”.

You contradicted yourself and you did so because you aren’t speaking from experience, or even anecdotal evidence. You’re just regurgitating what you’ve read and I expect that most reading your posts already knew that.

I’m not trying to gang up on you. This is not a personal attack.

I said nothing work forever,is that so bad…i believe in that statement…I have many book at home,ebook,read many website…anyway that doesnt give me a degree…but that give me a idea or a way to look at things…And look at the thread im not the one who used a rude or sarcastics sentence first…My personnal opinion,lift heavy weight,listen to your body,make adjustement…eat,train,sleep…is that so bad because …i read many post on inyensemuscle.com,and i dont see why they are so ruse with all the beginnier who asked question…
And thanks for not making it a personnal attack!!anyway another key in the gym is intensity…not staying in the gym to make friend or to talk half of the time…

In fact, don’t even listen to what Scott, Stronghold, myself or anyone else in this thread has said to you. Instead, just take a good look around at how the majority (because there are always genetic freaks like Paul Dillet) of big, strong people do to get to that point.

Are they constantly changing set/rep schemes every 3-6 weeks and changing their workouts to avoid “adapting”? Or do the majority of them just focus on progression, eating and resting?

How many champion BB’ers (natural or otherwise) do you think turned their training programs into advanced calculus problems; worrying about things like tempo, constant variation, etc…?

Look at reality, and come away with your own conclusions. My suspicion is that you’ll come away realizing that what Scott and Stronghold have been saying is the truth.[/quote]

I know some people who switch workouts every few weeks, to “keep the body guessing”…

…they look the same each year.

[quote]Rampage74 wrote:

Of Course i was expecting some comments coming from a guy who used roids a few times!! as for languange,im french canadian, i think my english is not to bad and my spanish also,how many language do you speak…we can have a really fun game here…at the beginning i was just trying to explained there is more then one system…i even said dc is probably good,ws4sb also, i believe in using different split from time to time(same as many coach…)but i got some some reply…so mr roids could you tell me a few words in spanish or french or any other language?? come we gonna have fun mr roids!!
[/quote]

What does steroid usage have to do with you sounding like an unintelligible idiot?

This is an english board, asshole. If I go to a french board, I would post in french. If I go to a spanish board, I post I would post in spanish.

Show me anywhere on this thread where anyone suggested that there was only one system. Go ahead - I’ll wait. You can’t because no one has said anything close to that.

You were owned by ScottM, and just about everyone else who has a fucking clue - and now you are upset and trying to save face by making stupid ad hominem attacks.

I’m not going to waste my time with a kid who can’t communicate very well in 3 different languages.

If you want to have an intelligent discussion about steroids - I’d be happy to oblige. But I think you will find that, around here, steroids is not the dirty word you want it to be.

You might want to try to find another means by which to make personal attacks.

[quote]quote of the day;

Never say something against dc with someome who believe in DC training!![/quote]

I want you(and don’t even think about responding to me before you do this) to find a quote from someone that says DC is the only way to reach your goals. You won’t because it’s not in here. People are saying to stick with what works and what you believe in. You said that yourself! You simply feel that you can’t stick with one system long term and we do… it’s not our fault you get ADD and need to “change it up” and try new stuff. Good for you and have fun with that, why is it taking so long to get through your thick skull that some people want to stay on the same program long term?

If it were up to me there would be 1 DC thread on this whole board and people that wanted to train that way could come there and ask questions or whatever they feel like… but I can’t stop them. I’m going to pick and choose which of these threads I post in from now on because people get their egos bent out of shape when they hear people sing the praises of something they believe in and works for them.

But…you just don’t get it. I don’t want anyone to DC train that doesn’t firmly believe in it, I don’t think it’s the best method for anyone but a select few individuals who have the drive and experience to justify it. I want you to do whatever makes you happy and if you reach your goals congratulations. If you aren’t reaching your goals at a rapid rate and there are people catching up and surpassing you don’t get your panties in a bunch, do something about it.

I felt the need to respond to you because you posted the most retarded program I’ve ever seen save Cybergenics on the Trying Doggcrapp thread and I don’t want A N Y O N E getting advice from you when it comes to anything remotely DC related on this site because you don’t get it there either. DC is not “lets see how many intensity techniques we can use to drive ourselves into the ground like this”…

[quote]Workout #1

A) Bench press: 2 omni-sets*, 90 seconds rest
*With a bench press omni-set, perform 6-8 reps of Gironda neck presses, then rack the weight for 10 seconds. Take the weight again and perform a bench press lowered to the nipple line. Rack the weight for 10 seconds, then perform close grip presses.[/quote]

Can you explain to me what that has to do with DC training in the least bit? If the phrase HIT was in your planned answer, save it because you are lost again.

You are like a guy who walks into a hip hop club where everyone is dancing and tries to country line dance… everyone just stares and hopes you go away from something you aren’t remotely understanding.

Oh man… this old debate again.
This forum is so full of… surprises…
Being a DC trainee myself, I guess I should chime in with something witty, but damn…

Er, could someone change the thread title (take the “versus” out), just so that people don’t get the wrong idea about this thread.

And rampage, DC changes constantly.
Instead of this change happening every 3-6 workouts, it happens all the time.

No one says that it’s the best thing since sliced bread (hmmm… I don’t even eat bread anymore… A cause for grave concern according to my relatives), but there is just NO REASON to swap to an entirely different program if this one works so well for the people who do it right.

I seriously don’t get your logic here…