T Nation

Dog Fighting = Good Workout

Today at the gym, I was walking by the cardio area and saw a special on the news about the Micheal Vick dog fighting charges on the TVs, and against my better judgement stopped to watch it for a minute or two.

Well, needless to say, the video of badly mauled and dead dogs got me a little worked up, and I went on to have one of the best lifting sessions I’ve had in a long time. I just thought of what I would do to a dog fighter if I happened on one in a dark alley somewhere, and diverted my rage to the bar…

I really don’t want to get started on a Michael Vick-bashing party since so far he hasn’t been convicted of anything, but I just wanted to vent a little because I really can’t think of many things more atrocious and unforgiveable than putting a dog in a pit to fight for its life.

Maybe as a dog owner, I’m a little biased, and you could argue that we have a lot more important things to worry about in this world, but damned if I don’t get REALLY pissed when I hear about it. So anyway, I guess I’ll end this random post with this: when you get in one of those tax-deductable donation kind of moods, don’t forget about animal rescue organizations!

Peace.

The other day they had the worlds strongest man competition playing(where Phil Phiester took back the title for America) and that got me pretty fired up.

dogs are fucking awesome and i agree with the OP’s sentiment.

give me a 12 ga and an open field and i’ll sluaghter rabbits all night long though.

[quote]swordthrower wrote:
Maybe as a dog owner, I’m a little biased, and you could argue that we have a lot more important things to worry about in this world, but damned if I don’t get REALLY pissed when I hear about it. So anyway, I guess I’ll end this random post with this: when you get in one of those tax-deductable donation kind of moods, don’t forget about animal rescue organizations!

Peace.[/quote]

Dude,theres noway you can be biased about something like that. There just things that are just flat out wrong and Animal Cruelty is up there. I guess im a little more compasionate about Animals and I have a soft spot for these little guys more than most people but they dont know any better. The owners do.

People who mistreat animals are generally sociopaths. For this reason, I support very long prison sentences for these types of criminals. While they might “only” be hurting dogs (a sentiment I disagree with, of course), these are the same scum who beat their wives, molest their daughters, etc.

…and when a person’s sociopath condition worsens, they upgrade their victim to humans and run for public office.

I don’t condone dog fighting but I believe it is not the same type of animal abuse that is normally found in sociopaths.

Couldn’t agree with you more. (referring to original post)

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I don’t condone dog fighting but I believe it is not the same type of animal abuse that is normally found in sociopaths.

[/quote]

we’ll just call them social deviants then; that work for ya?

Dog fighting is BRUTAL, INHUMANE, and SICK.

Have any of you seen what happens at one of these events? These people are social deviants and they should be stopped.

Why do you think its so popular amongst gangs and gang culture. These people are de-sensitized to violence. Voilence and brutality aginst animals AND humans.

IF vick is involved to the level its been alleged, i want him thrown out of the league and out of the HUMAN RACE.

[quote]Mousse wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I don’t condone dog fighting but I believe it is not the same type of animal abuse that is normally found in sociopaths.

we’ll just call them social deviants then; that work for ya?[/quote]

Not even. Just callous to that method of dying, like a person who becomes callous to killing chickens for food. The average american can’t imagine doing that. What do you suggest the people that do are social deviants?

I am not going to defend dog fighting but it is a popular sport that has been practiced by many cultures throughout the ages.

The point is not to maim the dogs but to create competition and place bets.

The dog owners do not want to see their animals badly hurt or killed.

Laws against it have driven it underground and probably prevented many dogs from getting the post fight care they need.

Not that I want to legalize it this is something to think about.

Regarding Vick, I have had enough of this jackass. Between giving women herpes under his alias Ron Mexico, his stupid water bottle incident and the dog fighting he looks like a bad apple. His brother Marcus is also a jerk.

Under the NFL’s new conduct policies he should probably be suspended if he can be tied to the dog fighting.

I saw the same clip yesterday and I share your sentiment. I had to turn the TV off or I was about to lose it.

I then grabbed a tennis ball and took my dog outside to play.

I fight dogs for FUN!!

:slight_smile:

[quote]SBT wrote:
I saw the same clip yesterday and I share your sentiment. I had to turn the TV off or I was about to lose it.

I then grabbed a tennis ball and took my dog outside to play.[/quote]

I have the same exact reaction to the story on ESPN. The only thing I could do to control my anger was give my Bully a kiss on the head and take her out to play.

Anybody interested in taking a stand on this is encouraged to write Congressman Tom Lantos.
Lantos has been in congress for over 20 years now and is at the forefront of this issue. He has actually taken a public stand warning the NFL that if they try to sweep this under the rug, he will do everything he can to get the government involved.

He can be reached at the following addresses:

Congressman Tom Lantos
400 S. El Camino Real
Suite 410
San Mateo, CA 94402

and

Congressman Tom Lantos
2413 Rayburn HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515

I have already written him a letter thanking him for his support. If you care about this issue, especially if you own a bully, I would ask that you do the same.

Personally I believe that a civilized society cannot allow such barbaric behavior. Please send a letter today.
Bumper and I thank you!

Sincerely,
Mike Cruickshank

when i read the title i thought YOU were fun fighting dogs as some form of GPP LOL

Used to wrestle/play fight a lot with my 110lb Rottie loads of fun, just have to remember to always win, or they get strange ideas

I find that dog owners are some of the most inconsiderate people I know next to smokers.

They let dogs out to poop on your lawn, crap in the park, tear your garbage up, and terrorize the local populace. While running I have been attacked 4 times in the last 4 years and my wife was attacked once while riding her bike. Dogs are one of the top killers of people in the U.S.

Those that do not let out to roam free bark all day and all night long, dig under your fence and continue to be a nuisance.

Then if you visit somebody’s house that owns a dog, many times the dog will jump on you or nip at you (depending on size) and the owner will do nothing, or very little, to stop it.

I could care less that dogs are pitted to kill each other. They do that on their own anyway. And when they don’t they pack up to kill people or whatever they happen to run into.

I personally kill very dog I have opportunity to kill. The last dog that attacked me did so right in front of the owner. I was jogging down the road and it ran out of the yard and jumped at me to try and bite me. I turned around and kicked the hell out of it till it ran away. The owner didn’t even say sorry. Next time I see the dog around I will kill it.

I get a good work out thinking about how to waste dogs…

Hey Zap,

Mike Cruickshank here. I had a couple questions about your response.

  1. While I am familiar that there are several third world societies that still have organized dog fights (i.e. Afghanistan sp?) I am not aware of any developed country which in the last 100 years or so has viewed the practice as acceptable.

  2. I am not familiar what the state of dog fighting is in your area, I can only speak about where I am from (Trenton, Philly, Camden area). Dog fighting was a serious problem in Trenton about 10 years ago before a huge public outcry let to a massive police crackdown. To show how public involvement can affect this issue, dog fighting has gone down tremendously in our area.

Regardless, I have never heard of one case in which the breeders actually care for these dogs. In our area, the practice is to let the dogs fight for some time, up to an hour in some cases.

The end result is that one dog will and is expected to die. I am not sure what, if any medical care could help the animals given the often extreme extent of the injuries.

In all, I don’t know how any civilized culture could find a way to rationalize this as being acceptable.

One of my clients, who was a trenton cop for some time, told me that he was doing undercover work on a local trenton gang. Often times, drugs, weapons, and gang crime are tied intimately with dog fighting contests. He told me of a story of a man who dragged he child to one of these events.

My client told me that the only time he almost lost it in his entire undercover career was when he turned around and saw the child crying while all the other people in the room were laughing because one of the dogs was killed and was leaking piss and shit out after he died.

It’s a true story which should put this practice and the people who engage in it within a proper perspective.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I am not going to defend dog fighting but it is a popular sport that has been practiced by many cultures throughout the ages.

The point is not to maim the dogs but to create competition and place bets.

The dog owners do not want to see their animals badly hurt or killed.

Laws against it have driven it underground and probably prevented many dogs from getting the post fight care they need.

Not that I want to legalize it this is something to think about.

Regarding Vick, I have had enough of this jackass. Between giving women herpes under his alias Ron Mexico, his stupid water bottle incident and the dog fighting he looks like a bad apple. His brother Marcus is also a jerk.

Under the NFL’s new conduct policies he should probably be suspended if he can be tied to the dog fighting. [/quote]

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
Hey Zap,

Mike Cruickshank here. I had a couple questions about your response.

  1. While I am familiar that there are several third world societies that still have organized dog fights (i.e. Afghanistan sp?) I am not aware of any developed country which in the last 100 years or so has viewed the practice as acceptable.

[/quote]

As I said I am not condoning it merey pointing out that it is not the type of animal abuse normal associated with sociopaths.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm
A BRIEF HISTORY OF DOG FIGHTING:

For those of us who enjoy our dogs as partners in work, sport or simply as life-companions, it is difficult to believe that a subculture of people raise and keep dogs for the purpose of using them as gambling tools; pawns to be used in attempts to raise their status, and to fulfill their desires to be “hangers-on” to someone or something bigger and better than themselves.

There can be no denying that the use of bulldogs throughout the past couple thousand years as hunters of rough, large game, controllers of bulls and as gambling tools against bulls, bears, badgers and their own kind, has shaped the dog into the breed we know today.

But the use of the bulldog exclusively for dog fighting is a modern development which came about when bull-baiting was outlawed in the 1800’s. You might be surprised to know that the “kennel club” breed known today as the “English Bulldog” wasn’t even developed until a couple decades after bull baiting was outlawed.

The baiting of large, fierce animals such as bear or bull, was historically considered fit entertainment for royalty while the fighting of dog against dog was looked upon as a “poor relation” to the baiting of larger, more powerful animals.

As long as there are men with no regard for societal laws seeking to prove the prowess of their dogs, there will be dog fighting. As law enforcement officers and concerned citizens, the best we can do is make an effort to educate ourselves and others about the realities of this bloodsport and make all efforts to come to the aid of the pit bulls which are the innocent victims.

While animal fighting occurs almost everywhere in the world, dog fighting and fighting dogs have historically been associated with the United Kingdom.

The baiting of bulls by dogs was even required by law. Mr. Perkins in his treatise of Cases of Conscience (published 1632) states: "The baiting of the bear, and cockfights, are no meet [not good] recreations. The baiting of the bull hath its use, and therefore it is commanded by civil authority; and so have not these. "


History
Dog fighting has been documented in the recorded history of many different cultures, and is presumed to have existed since the initial domestication of the species. Many breeds have been bred specifically for the strength, attitude, and physical features that would make them better fighting dogs.

Scholars speculate that large scale human migrations, the development of trade, and gifts between royal courts of valuable fighting dogs facilitated the spread of fighting dog breeds. There are many accounts of military campaigns which utilised fighting dogs, as well as royal gifts in the form of large dogs.

This blood sport of baiting animals has occurred since antiquity, most famously during those times in the Roman Colosseum; however, in contemporary times, it is most associated with the English, who pursued it with utmost earnestness, which was barely known elsewhere in the world.

For over six hundred years the pastime flourished, reaching the peak of its popularity during the sixteenth century. The various animal types involved in the bait allowed for the breed specialization and basic anatomical forms of fighting dogs, which we see today.

The activity was popular in many countries throughout history and continues to be practiced both legally and illegally around the world.

[edit] Afghanistan
Dog fighting has made a big comeback in Afghanistan since the fall of the hardline Taliban rulers. During Taliban rule, dog fighting was banned but has been growing ever so popular since the Taliban rule fell. Afghan people claim that dog fighting is part of their democracy. Reportedly, police officers in Afghanistan do not enforce any laws, and often watch the fights.[1]

[edit] Japan
Dog fighting began in Japan before the end of the Kamakura period. According to historical documents, Hōjō Takatoki, the 14th shikken (shogun’s regent) of the Kamakura shogunate was known to be obsessed with dog fighting, to the point where he allowed his samurai to pay taxes with dogs. At this time, dog fighting was called inuawase.

Dog fighting was considered a way for the Samurai to retain their aggressive edge during peaceful times. Several daimyo, such as Chosokabe Motochika and Yamauchi Yodo, both from Tosa Province (present-day Kochi Prefecture), were known to encourage dog fighting. Dog fighting was also popular in Akita Prefecture, which is the origin of the Akita breed.

Dog fighting evolved in Kochi to a form that is called Tōken (闘犬). Under modern rules, dogs fight in a fenced ring until one of the dogs barks, yelps, or loses the will to fight. Owners are allowed to throw in the towel, and matches are stopped if a doctor judges it is too dangerous.

Draws usually occur when both dogs won’t fight or both dogs fight until the time limit. There are various other rules, including one that specifies that a dog will lose if it attempts to copulate, which is called hentai. Champion dogs are called yokozuna, as in sumo.

With generic animal protection laws in place, dog fighting is not specifically banned in Japan, except in Tokyo, and can be seen in Kochi. Currently, most fighting dogs in Japan are Tosa, which is a breed that was developed in Kochi [2]. Dog fighting does not have strong links to gambling in Japan.

[edit] North America
Dog fighting in North America is illegal. Despite legality issues, dogs are still commonly used for fighting purposes all across North America. Foreign breeds, such as the Dogo Argentino (used widely in South America) and Presa Canario (used in Spain) are also gaining popularity in North America, especially where American Pit Bull Terriers are being banned.

The Mexican film Amores perros main story involves dog fighting and shows the underground environment where they take place. Dog fighting is increasingly practiced by gangs, because it is often considered intimidating if a member has a powerful fighting dog by his side.

Michael Vick , quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, has recently been in the news for allegedly being involved in an illegal dog fighting operation. He has steadfastly denied these claims.

[edit] Pakistan
Contrary to popular belief, dog fighting is illegal in Pakistan, though law enforcement rarely enforces the laws[citation needed]. In addition, it is illegal to possess dog fighting materials such as videos, or to attend an event that subjects an animal to cruel treatment, although this law is seldom upheld due to corrupt officials and lack of interest from authorities[citation needed].

[edit] Russia
Although animal cruelty laws do exist in Russia, dogfights are especially widespread and common. Laws prohibiting dogfights have been made in certain places, and in others dogfights are legally held under the supervision of the All-Russian Association of Russian Volkodavs. Temperament tests, which are a commonplace and mild form of dogfighting used for breeding purposes, are fairly commonplace.[citation needed]

[edit] United Kingdom
During the Roman reign there were Pugnaces Britanniae or war dogs in Britain, mostly used in battle but later used for dog fighting contests in the amphitheatre. As early as 1154, in the reign of Henry II, bull-baiting and bear-baiting with dogs was a popular amusement.

Breeding allowed for a specialized breed in the form of the now extinct original Old English Bulldog. The contemporary recreation of the breed is recognized called the Olde English Bulldogge.

Dog fighting continued in London long after the Cruelty to Animals Act 1835 made dog fighting, bull-, bear-, and badger-baiting, and cock fighting illegal. However, the legislation applied only to cruelty to domestic and captive animals, not to wild ones.

Despite periodic dog-fight prosecutions, the illegal canine pit battles continued. Sporting journals of the 18th and 19th centuries show the Black Country and London as the main English dog fight centres of the period. Dog fighting was also rife in many areas of Ireland.

It is still very popular in certain areas of England, with a large underground following. As the result of the New Year’s day attack on Ellie Lawrenson by a dog bred for fighting, a police clamp down has resulted in over two hundred fighting dogs in the Merseyside area of England being seized.

[edit] Latin America
Dog fighting is widespread in much of Latin America, especially in Argentina, Colombia and many parts of Brazil. The Dogo Argentino is by far the most common breed involved in the bloodsport. The Fila Brasileiro is also used, but rarely. The American Pit Bull Terrier is another breed that is commonly involved in dog fighting circuits. The Dogo Cubano and dogo cordoba were used for fighting a mere century ago, but are extinct now.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:

My client told me that the only time he almost lost it in his entire undercover career was when he turned around and saw the child crying while all the other people in the room were laughing because one of the dogs was killed and was leaking piss and shit out after he died.

It’s a true story which should put this practice and the people who engage in it within a proper perspective.

…[/quote]

Mike,

This is disgusting but it is also a result of having criminal elements control the activity. This is not the way it was when dog fighting was legal.

The British actually cared for their dogs and usually did not fight them to the death back when it was legal.

If this is the type of fighting Vick is involved in then he is a worse person than I thought.