Does Training Volume Get A Bad Rap?

One of the sciencey ways to build muscle is Metabolic Stress. Like keeping tension on a muscle and pumping it full of metabolic waste, keeping out oxygen and all the good stuff. Maybe lactic acid?

If you do big, compound exercises, pushing rest times so you’re always breathing heavy can you get a bigger effect?

I fee like Pendlay (or some olympic guy) talked about Barbell Complexes as a great way to build mass. Not big weights, not tons of reps, but lots of dense work while out of breath.

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Stu and I have discussed this. Me, although I only competed once, I trained as if I was at times of my life because I wanted to look like a bodybuilder anyway. When I had my first kid I didn’t have a house. So I still attempted to lift four times per week. Fast forward, with a home and a second kid coming, highly involved in-laws, more family events, and a two year old boy with boundless energy, I’m flat-out admitting that my gym time is becoming more and more erratic and I’ve settled on maintaining SOMETHING with a full body routine. There’s not much of another choice for now and accepting I will not have the body I once did.

A lot of this is acceptance. For me, it’s not just a matter of getting a home gym considering my gym is a five minute drive for me. For some time I was going to the gym at 4:45 but my evenings lately aren’t ending when I want them to and, maybe I’ve become soft, but i find it daunting to do a grueling workout, then have to work for 8 to 9 hours, come home and take care of all sorts of stuff and run around with my son.

Thought I’m not a narcissist, I admit there’s a narcissistic streak because admittedly what I miss is looking a certain way. But is this more important than some other things for now? It isn’t. So this makes me more concerned with my health first and foremost. I don’t skimp much on cardio and I still eat well. Plus a lot of my chores are physical.

I’d like to have three kids but I think if that happens then I’m in for a real dad bod.

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With your knowledge and effort, You can keep a respectable physique with three 30 minute workouts a week I bet. Whether that be full body or PPL or something, you can easily get 10 good sets in 30 minutes. You won’t be winning the Natty O, but you won’t become a beer bellied jamoke

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Great post.

I’ve just had my first and I’m in the same boat as yourself.

So hard trying to tame the iron beast which lurks within :sob:

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I’ve found when life gets in the way and shit comes up consistently, full-body will maintain your strength and muscle and keep you strong and looking good.

May not be to bodybuilding standards, but you’ll keep that dad bod at bay!

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Once I got past my post-divorce depression with about 45 years there was a point where I woke up one morning and decided to live by what I preached as a trainer in the rehab sector: whenever serious sickness strikes, be it a heart attack, you start rehab at less than where you were before! In cardiac rehabilitation (yes, it is a muscle) this often results in patients not being able to walk a distance longer than a windows- hence the window- sickness!

As you age the same applies to your musco-skeletal system.
Living a muscle conscious life is an investment in longevity at any age!

There is research out there that advises creatin at nearly all ages, ya know?!

Leading a new patchwork life today means caring for many things, BUT I am important- even to the point where my health relates to money as a fit worker!

If I manage to free 45 min 6 days a week, so can anyone not needing to travel hours to the next gym!!!

Last but not least: Any partner in life must have an interest in your health! No wife-kid thing has anything from a decrease in performance of you- moneywise, sexually, psychology-wise or the general perception of „family-life“ - don’t lose your identity!

BE THE BEST BODY WITH 50 I CAN
(Pick your goal age here, wink)

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Ok, you sort of answered my question without addressing it at all, so maybe I’m asking
the wrong question. Let me try again:

What is the maximum number of sets per workout you find to be beneficial? Per muscle group, or multiple muscles combined, advanced or average.

My program had 10 to 20.

Diet plays a big role. Hard to do much volume when you cut calories.

Towards the end of the prep I cut down on sets.

I’m torn on this subject, I really respect @The_Mighty_Stu opinion and it’s a real shame Paul had a bit of a wobbly as I think some good stuff could have come from the discussion.

On the other hand I’ve been doing Dc mixed with Paul’s stuff and I’m currently in such a sweet spot. I’m finding the growth and progression unbeleivable. Also influenced by Hypertrophy Coach and Eugene Teo in terms of exercise selection and execution, that’s a real game changer.

It really is a case of finding your own personal sweet spot. My body loves the lower volume higher intensity stuff, but that’s not to say it’s going to work for everyone. I discovered lower volume slightly higher frequency works well for me years ago, but have tried time and time again to switch to a higher volume approach with not very good results. Currenly I’m training less in terms of actual time than ever before.

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Just wanted to add that I havnt just jumped on the Paul Carter band wagon. I’ve been following his work for a long time because it’s always seemed to work for me and really suits my personality training wise.

I dont beleive Paul is conducting himself very well in that thread and I also dont think he is getting his message across very well. I do agree with his comment about volume not being the driver of muscle growth. I beleive that applies to 95% of people you see trying to grow in the gym, it’s an aspect or aspects other than volume that is probably missing. I think the problem lies when you say increasing volume isnt important for the other 5% (high level folk with every other aspect covered) maybe that’s where the main disagreement is @The_Mighty_Stu

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Good post. I like Paul’s thread, which is why I was participating in it and linked Stu to it. Again, as I said before, I liked that Paul was discussing what people actually do in a gym and stressing exercise execution, exercise selection, effort, and that people shouldn’t blindly follow the evidenced-based crew. I don’t think he said anything bad in the thread. I mean, there are people who got huge on low-volume, high-intensity training. Hence why I linked CT’s old Article titled Pump Down the Voume.

If I have it correct PC used to train with moderate volume. Perhaps now he thinks he can get the same benefit with less. That’s good then.

However, I think there should be discussion of actual high-volume training that’s used by top level people too.

PC’s talk about what is big size for natural bodybuilders is off, as said before. As said, 195 at sub-ten percent bodyfat at 5’11” is huge and anyone with those stats is one of the most intimidating people in the gym, even if there are enormous IFBB pros around (and even those guys think that).

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I’ve always struggled with the urge or compulsion to do more volume. I always get paranoid that I’m going to waste my time if I don’t do x, y, and z. CT’s Best Damn Program probably started me on the journey to where I am now. The discussion in Paul’s thread has helped ease some of my paranoia. It also directed me towards DC training and I actually read about the program a little bit.

I’m currently really enjoying a lower volume approach. I’m not following the DC split in terms of exercise selection, but I’m following an A/B split. I find myself looking forward to my workouts and feeling pretty fresh most days of the week.

The problem with my experience is that I’m doing this while recovering from shoulder surgery. I’m not exactly in a phase where I’m making progress. I’m just hoping to hold on to what muscle I had going into surgery.

If you told me that 10 sets with all out intensity worked as well as 20 sets with 80% intensity than I might opt for the 20 sets. Best Damn taught me that some of my joints don’t like the extended sets and slower eccentrics. I’ve been using slower eccentrics again after reading some DC stuff and I’ve experienced joint pain again.

I’m also still drawn to CrossFit type training. I know I won’t ever be on the same level as a pro CrossFit athlete, but their physique is admirable. I don’t see them doing bodybuilding routines so I think there is definitely more than one way to reach physique goals.

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It ain’t a plea for more sets, but certainly that more reps work:

There comes a point at which people should do what they like if they’re not going to compete in bodybuilding. Seriously! All this talk we do is great for entertainment, but the minutia of training and nutrition is unimportant for the vast majority of people who want to look and feel good… and… have a life!

Yesterday I read a post of a WNBF pro with a one-in-a-million-plus natty physique (I mean this literally) in which he said bodybuilding is his foremost priority and that if he was the last human living he’d still do it and that he cannot tolerate the possibility of going to old age knowing that he didn’t give BB his all.

I cannot relate to this. Most can’t. He actually is someone who speaks of training minutia and perhaps he is the one who actually should be concerned with it. (Not joking.)

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I’ve said it time and time again that switching from a gym to training at home with limited time and equipment has been the best thing ever for myself training wise.

If you only have access to a bench and dumbells for chest then you sure as shit are going to figure out how to get the best out of your limited movements. You pay attention to many little variables that you may overlook in a gym environment, you play with form, tempo, rep ranges. Before long you figure out how to absolutly annihilate your chest in 10 minutes and a few of sets with maximum tension and intensity, progress is easier to track too.

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You may like this guy

I think that dude qualifies as a genetic outlier. Good grief.

Wow.

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