T Nation

Does Proviron Shutdown/Suppress HPTA?

Hey, there… can someone give me a right answer on this one right here: does Proviron shutdown or supress HPTA or it’s inconclusive? well, I know mesterolone is kind of similar to DHT and some studies say it’s not supressive at all, while others say the exactly opposite… I’m currently on Clomid to restore my own T for good, my last test cyp injection was last year (December 21) so as you can see it’s been a while…the main issue is that I’m dieting aiming fat loss (drinking coffee as hell, though I hate that coffee taste) and my SHBG is going sky high (probably because of clomid, dieting and coffee?) so I need to know (please, help me) what can I do to unbound my free T for real, aside from stop coffee or something… thanks. PS: just want to add: I heard Proviron helps with sex drive issues because of the lowering SHBG effect and my libido get ups and downs all the time, I hate the feeling. Hope it’s not supressive…

Ehhhh, SHBG fluctuates throughout the day, it isn’t that important so long as free/bioavailable T is alright, so if you’ve got SHBG (consistently) of 100nmol but a TT of 2000ng/DL it doesn’t matter.

Yeh, proviron is suppressive (dose dependent), however less so than many AAS. HOWEVER given the oral bioavailability of proviron it makes sense. With an oral bioavailability of roughly 3% out of 50mg/day you’re only getting 1.5mg of hormone per 50mg. If you took 1.5 mg of Anavar/day you wouldn’t see much supression either. It’s dose dependent, I don’t believe it’s any less supressive than other AAS. Get esterified mesterolone (it’s a thing, not sure if still available though) and it’ll shut you down.

What’s yor Total T on the Clomid? You would be an outlier if coffee was having any significant impact on your SHBG. Sure, it could raise it, a little, maybe. That is not the problem though.

hey there, thanks for replying. My total testosterone went to 800ng/dl after Clomifene and before it was a mess, probably because the exogenous testosterone. My SHBG values were 95 nmol/L. I mean, come on… it’s crazy and being honest, I don’t blame Clomid at all. I’m not willing to go for TRT since I’m trying to produce my own, but I want my Free Testosterone to be a decent thing. I’m going nuts… That’s why I want to give Proviron a try but since mesterolone is a steroid too, could be supressive I think. I heard of Danazol but who knows if that stuff is not suppressive as well…

Proviron is supressive, and I seriously doubt that Clomid had anything to do with your SHBG, You could have a liver problem, but also keep in mind that SHBG is elevated by low test. The longer and lower the more SHBG. Using HCG while in TRT would take care of fertility - provided the boys can make fertile sperm. You would be just as fertile on TRT with HCG as not on TRT. That being said, is Clomid the only restart that you have attempted? Have you tried Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)?

Well, but my total testosterone went up, the problem is with the free T… I still don’t get those mesterolone studies, claiming it’s not suppressive since it’s a synthetic form of DHT, not testosterone itself. The funny thing is Novaldex kills in my sex drive while Clomid does not. It’s sad to hear that mesterolone is supressive, since it reallly helps men to restore their sex drive (I read everywhere) so yeah, I’m scared. Well, the main problem is that I’m not in US so get a GP to prescribe me testosterone would be impossible, they’re close minded where I live, go figure it. I’m trying my best to get my T Levels up and trying to preserve my free T, since I’m pretty much aware it’s way more important than total testosterone levels. I’m considering I got some liver issue as you mentioned. Since I’m not actually able to get into TRT at this time, can I restore my own T without getting that sexual sides from time to time? It’s bugging me. Huh, I really miss my teens when I did not know a single thing about testosterone, DHT, shbg, estradiol (not saying I’m a expert) and my libido was going through the roof…I’m 33yo, by the way.

forgot to ask, what’s your opinion on magnesium, boron and all those micronutrients that could bind to SHBG thus lowering it? also I heard testosterone gel has some connection with higher DHT levels, but well…it’s supressive, so it’s just a thought.

Testosterone gel is just a different delivery method for testosterone. The gels have a low absorption rate, you only actually get about 10-15% of what is in the gel. A shot is essentially 100%, scrotal cream is around 70% I believe. So, yeah, it’s supressive.

That’s because they’re completely BS. It’s like the studies in the 60’s that identified people as being Type A or Type B personalities. Paid for by tobacco companies to point the finger at something other than cigarettes as the cause of all that stroke and heart disease.
Here’s the thing, not much dents high SHBG. You can try to bind it up by taking DHEA, it has a greater affinity for that than testosterone. Really though, you need to address the cause. Is it entirely from long term low T? Could be, in which case a nice high level of T over a consistent length of time will lower it. If it’s a liver issue, then that needs to be addressed.
Where are you? Someone here might be able to help if we know the country you’re in.

They are shown to help, a little, and over time. Especially Boron. But don’t expect anything fast or magical.

I’m from Brazil unfortunately but my brother lives in Austin, TX and I consider him very lucky living in a country like US, I don’'t stand up for my country lol. I don’t know what’s happening here, most doctors are afraid of letting you use test cyp or any other testosterone, they think it causes havoc in your health, like it’s poison or something. Well, I was on 600mg/week test cyp without any side effects for 4 months (yeah, not TRT dosage at all) and I just dropped it cold turkey because it was SO difficult to get my hands on those injections, those bastards would not prescribe it, they would argue for nothing, I was on the verge of getting serious mad at them…sorry my language, I’m upset. Regarding my symptoms it’s been almost 6 months I’m off testosterone cypionate , sometimes I got a somewhat nice sex drive, sometimes I don’t. Want to know something funny? When I start eating like crazy (well, I usually don’t because I want to fit my clothes) my sex drive go through the roof after a while. So if I have pepperoni pizza, ice cream and those high calorie foods, my sex drive improves…well, my weight does not.

What do you normally eat?
So, it’s not over the counter there? I’m in Nicaragua, I buy what I want. It’s like that in all of Central America I think and at least some of South America. It’s like this in Colombia for sure. Are you near the border with any other country?

nope, not really…Wish it were, bro. A long time ago I can assure you it was over the counter, in the 90s…but here ANVISA (they’re like FDA) pretty much screwed things up, restricted it like hell (hey, like if anti histamines couldn’t not kill a person and they’re over the counter, so… yeah, that’s not even fair) and now you have to struggle with your GP to even get 150mg test cyp/week. We have a nearby country named Paraguay and as far as I know, you can buy testosterone there without any prescription. I hate my country and since I cannot get my hands on test now, I’m trying my best to fix my HPTA function. I want to thank you for those replies, I’m getting more and more frustrated over time. I eat basically a high protein diet when I’m aiming fat loss but sometimes I just got to get off it and do a cheating day. So I eat cottage cheese, eggs, eat some carbs as well like bananas, rice, sometimes white bread, yellow cheese, skim milk, avocados and some veggies. I’m not a meat lover (can’t eat chicken, hate it) but I ain’t a vegetarian. When I cheat, I just love some pepperoni pizza, burgers and these kind of things. Yeah I know I got to improve my diet, just don’t wanna to eat what I hate

Take a bus trip to Paraguay. The borders are not too tight down there.

yeah maybe it’s a pretty good idea…just don’t want trouble with the law and with all the luck I’ve got lately you can imagine the outcome…can someone get arrested or something like that just by carrying anabolic steroids?

clomiphene does raise SHBG… (or more specifically I’d say zuclomiphene probably raises SHBG, unsure about enclomiphene.)

Danazol is suppressive, as is mesterolone. I don’t believe clomiphene is a good contender for long term use given the potential for deleterious side effects

He is most likely going to encounter only clomiphene citrate in that part of the world, not brand name Clomid or anything else. I have two boxes in the cabinet, it’s OTC. I had not seen that study before, that’s pretty interesting. Do you think it’s because the body is being tricked into that T production and it isn’t registering correctly through the feedback loops?

Clomiphene Citrate is made up of two isomers (zuclomiphene and enclomiphene), zuclomiphene is inherently estrogenic in activity and antigonadotrophic.

another issue here, as everyone knows any calorie deficit havocs androgen hormones, I read it dozens of times and I need to lose some weight…but since I can’t tolerate Novaldex and can’t enter TRT, the smarter choice would stay on Clomifene? the damn thing is my SHBG going crazy high

What are you doing for exercise? What are you eating?

I eat basically a high protein diet when I’m aiming fat loss but sometimes I just got to get off it and do a cheating day. So on a normal day I eat cottage cheese, eggs, eat some carbs as well like bananas,potatoes, rice, sometimes white bread, I also enjoy yellow cheese, skim milk, avocados and some veggies, tryin’ to fit it into my calories obviously and I drink plenty water and I drink A LOT of diet soda because I can’t tolerate drinking just black coffee and water anymore, my brain needs some of that guilty pleasure now and then. I’m not a meat lover I would say (can’t eat chicken,don’t like it and don’t eat poultry) but I ain’t a vegetarian, I can eat a steak. When I cheat, I just love some pepperoni pizza, burgers and these kind of things that everyone enjoys and I can assure you, if I cheat in a row, my sex drive seem to improve (probably because of dopamine release and androgen/DHT increasing?) Sad thing is that I can’t do it as much as I want because of weight gain. Well, I do some weight training, lifting actually (don’t like cardio nor have the energy for it) and yeah, I know I could improve my diet but by doing what exactly? as I said to you guys, TRT for me is not a option where I live, the doctors get real scared prescribing testosterone like it’s a super-cancerous-dangerous-thing and I used it before injecting like 600mg/week but it was “underground testosterone”, expensive, from those creepy under labs and all that. Funny thing is that Clomid give me some good libido somedays and other days it kills my sex drive like crazy. My SHBG is going at some sick levels as I said, touching the sky and I thought Proviron would help, but since it’s supressive I’m feeling like I’m in a dark place right now. Could use some help, please…I’m in need to stay natural and I’m youngish, early thirties, must be some hope…