Does Prayer Work II

[quote]forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
You talk about universal laws, what about Murphy’s law of motion?

How is the idea of a universe or series of universes always existing contradicted by Murphy’s law of motion?[/quote]

Well by scientific research the Universe is always expanding? Or, I am incorrect in that?

Since the new idea is that the Universe, made up of planets and galaxies has always been here. How did human life begin on Earth?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Lol, I am not. My statement above is not about the Universe, it’s about what people believe just because someone says it. Just read the whole thing and get a chuckle out of it.[/quote]

.>

You start with a flawed analogy. I’ve read the whole thing, it’s still retarded. Also, you speak of believing in something when there is apparently no evidence and you only believe in it because someone told you it was true.

Irony is so delicious.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Since the new idea is that the Universe, made up of planets and galaxies has always been here. How did human life begin on Earth?[/quote]

Try reading a book that wasn’t written by Jews sitting around a campfire trippin’ on LSD.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Lol, I am not. My statement above is not about the Universe, it’s about what people believe just because someone says it. Just read the whole thing and get a chuckle out of it.

.>

You start with a flawed analogy. I’ve read the whole thing, it’s still retarded. Also, you speak of believing in something when there is apparently no evidence and you only believe in it because someone told you it was true.

Irony is so delicious.[/quote]

You assume that I believe in without evidence. That would mean I assume their is a God. Well, a little history. I went through my childhood without questioning anything and about when I was 16 I started looking to see if what I was being taught was true. I hit the theology light. Then I got into the science part around 18, and around 19 (until now) I was introduced to study to the deep theology, the eight ancient fathers of Christianity, the other philosophies, the scientific explanations of how the earth formed, etc.

Now with scientific evidence for both sides of the story, philosophy, theology, anthropology, etc. I have to say that my belief is not standing alone by itself, but with evidence of both physical as well as philosophical.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Since the new idea is that the Universe, made up of planets and galaxies has always been here. How did human life begin on Earth?

Try reading a book that wasn’t written by Jews sitting around a campfire trippin’ on LSD.[/quote]

Yes, and what book would you like me to read. I’ll put some on my to read list.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Try reading a book that wasn’t written by Jews sitting around a campfire trippin’ on LSD.[/quote]

My uncle once told me that the new “book” in the future will be the Lord of Rings trilogy. srsly

btw NZ rugby is the best.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Since the new idea is that the Universe, made up of planets and galaxies has always been here. How did human life begin on Earth?

Try reading a book that wasn’t written by Jews sitting around a campfire trippin’ on LSD.

Yes, and what book would you like me to read. I’ll put some on my to read list.[/quote]

Logic for 1st Graders.

[quote]forlife wrote:
BBriere wrote:
Nobody who lives in accordance with the word of God faces as many struggles as those who don’t.

Read Job much?[/quote]

Yes, I have. Have you? In the book of Job God tests Job’s faith and allows things to happen to him because he knows Job’s faith is stronger than most. At the end God rewards Job for his strong faith.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Well by scientific research the Universe is always expanding? Or, I am incorrect in that?[/quote]

Some scientists believe the universe goes through an infinite cycle of expansions and contractions. But even if it were always expanding, this doesn’t disprove that it has always existed.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Since the new idea is that the Universe, made up of planets and galaxies has always been here. How did human life begin on Earth?[/quote]

What if life has always existed as well? Not necessarily human life, but life in an infinite variety of species populating a universe that has always existed?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, and what book would you like me to read. I’ll put some on my to read list.[/quote]

Highly recommended:

“Demon Haunted World” by Carl Sagan

This book, more than any other I’ve read, will equip you to differentiate facts from fantasy.

The Bible never teaches that this universe is the first nor the last. It doesn’t touch the subject. It’s not a science book. I personally believe we are not the first nor the last. There is no way of telling. My question though is where did the universe come from?

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Yes, I have. Have you? In the book of Job God tests Job’s faith and allows things to happen to him because he knows Job’s faith is stronger than most. At the end God rewards Job for his strong faith.[/quote]

Yes, several times. You’re correct that Job gets rewarded at the end of a horrendous life, but he goes a long period of time where he suffers horribly in all kinds of ways, including the death of his children. What if he wanted his original children, rather than the 10 consolation prize children he got at the end?

Check out Psalm 73:

[quote]A psalm of Asaph. Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. But as for me, my feet had almost slipped; I had nearly lost my foothold. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from the burdens common to man; they are not plagued by human ills.

This is what the wicked are like - always carefree, they increase in wealth. Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure; in vain have I washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been plagued; I have been punished every morning.[/quote]

My point is that, even from the perspective of the believer, life is not going to be all roses just because you follow your faith. Many believers are pretty miserable, actually. Their consolation is that in the “next life”, all will be made right. Unfortunately, they never consider the possibility that there may not be a “next life”, and forsake the joy, love, and happiness available to them here and now.

[quote]BBriere wrote:
The Bible never teaches that this universe is the first nor the last. It doesn’t touch the subject. It’s not a science book. I personally believe we are not the first nor the last. There is no way of telling. My question though is where did the universe come from?[/quote]

The universe didn’t have to “come from” anything. Maybe it always existed (as suggested by the First Law of Thermodynamics), or maybe it is just one in an infinite series of universes.

Why people are so ready to believe that a “god” has always existed without “coming from” anything, but say it is impossible that the universe has always existed without “coming from” anything, is beyond me.

[quote]forlife wrote:
BBriere wrote:
The Bible never teaches that this universe is the first nor the last. It doesn’t touch the subject. It’s not a science book. I personally believe we are not the first nor the last. There is no way of telling. My question though is where did the universe come from?

The universe didn’t have to “come from” anything. Maybe it always existed (as suggested by the First Law of Thermodynamics), or maybe it is just one in an infinite series of universes.

Why people are so ready to believe that a “god” has always existed without “coming from” anything, but say it is impossible that the universe has always existed without “coming from” anything, is beyond me.[/quote]

Well, the universe is made up of matter. Matter had to have come from somewhere. Most cosmologists agree on the origins of the universe but even quantum mechanics break down at a certain point. Scientists can’t answer the question from where the singularity came. Even if they agree that the universe may be in an infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth it had to have started from somewhere. Typically this is a subject not touched by science because of religious implications. Of course science can’t prove religion.

Just remember to look at everything with an open mind. Some are so close minded in their religious beliefs they refuse to acknowledge science of any type because they think it underminds the Bible. Others can be so close minded by their logic that they automatically dismiss religion of any type since it can’t be proven

If it’s an “infinite cycle of birth, death, and rebirth” then by definition the universe had no beginning and has no end.

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that matter/energy can’t be created or destroyed. The logical conclusion is that matter/energy has always existed.

Why is that possibility so hard to accept, when people so readily accept the idea that a superbeing has always existed, without being created by something else?

[quote]forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Well by scientific research the Universe is always expanding? Or, I am incorrect in that?

Some scientists believe the universe goes through an infinite cycle of expansions and contractions. But even if it were always expanding, this doesn’t disprove that it has always existed.[/quote]

No, but I just wonder what set it in motion. Itself?

So who created God? If you can tell me he has always been there, then it shouldn’t be hard to grasp the theory that the UNIVERSE has always been there.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So who created God? If you can tell me he has always been there, then it shouldn’t be hard to grasp the theory that the UNIVERSE has always been there.[/quote]

It’s not about grasping, what I want to know if Natural Laws are in play what is making everything move.